Kimi: Mercedes drive or sabbatical?

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Where will Kimi Raikkonen be in 2010?

Poll ended at 28 Dec 2009, 21:51

Sabbatical (rallying)
14
64%
Mercedes
8
36%
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 22

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Tommi
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Re: 2009 Kimi's last season?

Post by Tommi » 16 Jul 2009, 16:07

Oh please. Spanish Marca is now saying that he has been drunk in races etc. :roll::

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Re: 2009 Kimi's last season?

Post by TwistedArmco » 16 Jul 2009, 16:31

sejtur wrote:To blizzard:
Hmmm I'm afraid I have no good answer to that, I can't deny that his races haven't been as good anymore like beginning in the back and then ending up in front. He almost did it in Australia 08, but then he screwed his race by being too late at breaking when the safetycar was gone. Too eager. Until the last laps, Spa was an impressive drive too.

He hasn't had those kind of races anymore, and I don't know what causes it really. Maybe it's multiple factors. That the car isn't suiting to his driving style, and he can't get it suited right in 08. Everybody has thesame tyres, but it seems that every car handles their tyres differently, and the Ferrari requires a hard driving style to the tyres, which suits massa more than Kimi. I don't know. Maybe it's what Megasexx said. Maybe that the team is worse with Todt and Brawn gone.

So if you mean that "magical touch" that he had in Suzuka 05 there is no more, maybe you're right, maybe not. I personally think it's still there, but that he doesn't really have the chance to show it anymore, or that when he does show it, something screws it up.
I think the magical touch requires a lot of things to go right for a driver, and therefore I think Kimi is still very much naturally capable of it, it's just that I agree with Patrick, because I think that the mental side of his game isn't there. I like him quite a lot because he never really cared too much about his image or PR or doing anything other than driving, but when not caring seems to extend to the driving, what can you conclude except that his motivation is gone. Therefore I think he doesn't actually have the confidence and mental toughness anymore in order to be able to do those feats of amazingness as in Suzuka 2005. It's a pity, but I believe it to be true. I'd either like him to find a new passion outside the sport or gain a new lease of life by finding a team he's more comfortable with.
No, I'm not calmer. Just more jaded.

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sejtur
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Re: 2009 Kimi's last season?

Post by sejtur » 16 Jul 2009, 16:33

From KRS:
Steve Robertson: Rumour talks pure BS
From MTV3.fi | Finnish Translation courtesy of Wolfie

Kimi Räikkönen's manager Steve Robertson rejects the stubborn rumour that Ferrari would replace Kimi with Alonso after this season.

"Those talks are pure BS," Robertson said to MTV3 on the telephone.

"These rumours have been going on for a while. Some quarters seem to have a habit of coming up with unjustified rumours and the magazines again want to write. A lot of the rumours come from Spanish reporters but as I said, there's no truth in them," Robertson continued.

Robertson didn't want to speculate if the group backing up Alonso could be behind the rumours.

"I don't know who is behind them but I can only assure that Kimi has a contract for the next season. Kimi is happy at Ferrari and he wants to drive for Ferrari."

Robertson says that Räikkönen is committed 110 % to continue his career in F1 and Ferrari.

"He has a contract with Ferrari and he will drive there," Robertson assured.
Here's a nice vid of Kimi denying the rumors that were already there early in the year: http://www.viddler.com/explore/Evenstar1KRS/videos/62/
"It's not like I suddenly lost my motivation, but it just people always talk alot of *beep* so..."-Kimi
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Re: 2009 Kimi's last season?

Post by AzShadow » 16 Jul 2009, 16:35

blizzard wrote:I´ve said my two cents about Kimi and that won´t change. He can´t lick Alonso´s boots, even Vettel and Hamilton can eat him alive. Every time it starts to rain since the traction control is gone, Kimi is spinning around like Kylie Minogue :lol:

Spa 08 is the best example, yes Lewis made a few mistakes too, but he psychologically owned Kimi easiliy that day. The way Kimi shunted the Ferrari under Hamilton´s pressure was just ridiculous. Or Silverstone last season or Monza and and and the guy can´t drive in the rain, the same goes for Massa, Ferrari make themselves look like fools with these drivers. In my humble oppinion Ferrari needs thoroughbreds like Alesi, G.Villeneuve, Schumacher, Berger. Even Eddie Irvine was way better than those two clowns in the rain. He got a lot of podiums in wet races. Kimi can only finish wet races on the podium with traction control, like Fuji 2007.
In 2008 McLaren clearly had the better car for wet conditions which also exaggerated some of Hamilton's drives, especially Spa 08 in this case. Can you remember as far as Chinese GP this year? One McLaren driver was spinning all the time and it wasn't Kovalainen. Again, bad car and thus no blistering result in wet conditions either.

I haven't seen Hamilton and Alonso do any better in bad cars than Kimi has, actually they've done even worse maybe. If you can remember as far as last year when Renault first had a crappy car and later on found more balance and speed into it, Alonso's driving and results changed accordingly. At the start of the season Alonso was mostly crashing or complaining all the time and then he started winning. All this required that the car was developed more to his liking.

Sounds more like the same usual to me. Every time Kimi's doing bad, it's absolutely only because of him, but when other drivers have similar results, there's at least 100 reasons why it's not because of them. Could also be about the team since in Ferrari you can't have bad results, no matter how much the car sucks. Kimi can't criticize the car either, something Prost had to learn years ago. In Kimi's McLaren years everyone could see how bad the Mercedes engines were back then, but now Ferrari's mechanical problems are blamed on Kimi too. :zz:

Spanish press is getting more desperate each day too it seems.
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Re: 2009 Kimi's last season?

Post by TwistedArmco » 16 Jul 2009, 16:43

AzShadow wrote:Spanish press is getting more desperate each day too it seems.
That I can fully agree with. :p
No, I'm not calmer. Just more jaded.

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Re: 2009 Kimi's last season?

Post by sejtur » 16 Jul 2009, 16:50

TwistedArmco wrote:I think the magical touch requires a lot of things to go right for a driver, and therefore I think Kimi is still very much naturally capable of it, it's just that I agree with Patrick, because I think that the mental side of his game isn't there. I like him quite a lot because he never really cared too much about his image or PR or doing anything other than driving, but when not caring seems to extend to the driving, what can you conclude except that his motivation is gone. Therefore I think he doesn't actually have the confidence and mental toughness anymore in order to be able to do those feats of amazingness as in Suzuka 2005. It's a pity, but I believe it to be true. I'd either like him to find a new passion outside the sport or gain a new lease of life by finding a team he's more comfortable with.
He's very happy at Ferrari, he gets to do other stuff like rally, which McLaren always wouldn't let him do. (which could be another cause for people thinking he lost his motivation to F1.)

I think his mental side/toughness is still there, but he doesn't really show it like you said he doesn't care alot about PR, but he does show it in the vid that I posted. He hasn't changed since he came in F1 IMO.

Also I think he still cares about driving, if he wouldn't, you could find him at the back of the grid every race I'm sure.(or much rather he'd just go) How can you say that he doesn't care about his own driving anymore? I don't get that part. He doesn't swerve around the track and takes the racing line...

You can also conclude that this season the whole table has turned around. "Red Bull is so much better now, they finally have motivation." To me, that's such a stupid way of reasoning. "Oh, Button and Barrichello are finally motivated." If somebody's results are bad, it doesn't mean that they're not motivated in alot of cases. There could be a reason to it, like that the car is not so good, or that other teams have taken much longer to develop their car than Ferrari.
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Re: 2009 Kimi's last season?

Post by AzShadow » 16 Jul 2009, 16:58

sejtur wrote: You can also conclude that this season the whole table has turned around. "Red Bull is so much better now, they finally have motivation." To me, that's such a stupid way of reasoning. "Oh, Button and Barrichello are finally motivated." If somebody's results are bad, it doesn't mean that they're not motivated in alot of cases. There could be a reason to it, like that the car is not so good, or that other teams have taken much longer to develop their car than Ferrari.
Exactly. This is what I was trying to say. Everybody can just think about Button last year and now and then notice the difference. Sure he's probably a lot more excited to have a championship worthy car under him but it's not like he didn't feel interested in F1 at all when he was running dead last. But yeah, it's not very common to think about the past in F1 as your last race result defines your whole career.
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Re: 2009 Kimi's last season?

Post by Totopupu » 16 Jul 2009, 17:14

I´ve said my two cents about Kimi and that won´t change. He can´t lick Alonso´s boots, even Vettel and Hamilton can eat him alive. Every time it starts to rain since the traction control is gone, Kimi is spinning around like Kylie Minogue :lol:

Spa 08 is the best example, yes Lewis made a few mistakes too, but he psychologically owned Kimi easiliy that day. The way Kimi shunted the Ferrari under Hamilton´s pressure was just ridiculous. Or Silverstone last season or Monza and and and the guy can´t drive in the rain, the same goes for Massa, Ferrari make themselves look like fools with these drivers. In my humble oppinion Ferrari needs thoroughbreds like Alesi, G.Villeneuve, Schumacher, Berger. Even Eddie Irvine was way better than those two clowns in the rain. He got a lot of podiums in wet races. Kimi can only finish wet races on the podium with traction control, like Fuji 2007.
WHAT??

Nurburgring 07: Hamilton make a lot of error and Kimi is unlucky with his team strategy
Fuji 07: Ferrari has a problem with tyres at start, so Kimi is penalized and Hamilton must make a huge brake test for win against Webber
China 07: Superb driving of Kimi, very bad strategy of McLaren

Monaco 08: Hamilton make an error like Raikkonen but a lot of people missed to say that Kimi has got a stop and go at start (too late change of tyres)
Silverstone 08: Kimi is faster than Hamilton, but at pitstop, Ferrari choose the bad tyres.
Monza 08: great Lewis and normal Kimi
Belgium 08: Hamilton cheat on rain again
Interlagos 08: Kimi finish 3rd and Hamilton make a bad driving.

China 09: No comment for Lewis!

So Kimi is better than Hamilton
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Re: 2009 Kimi's last season?

Post by Haukinen » 16 Jul 2009, 17:32

Tommi wrote:Oh please. Spanish Marca is now saying that he has been drunk in races etc. :roll::
That's low man :(
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Re: 2009 Kimi's last season?

Post by megasyxx » 16 Jul 2009, 17:35

kimi is a great driver, no doubt about that.....
if 2009 will be his last season, then i hope he'll win a race or two....
if not, i hope he'll have a resurgent 2010 season. this time maybe a
great battle for the wdc with lewis or another top driver - except his teammate though. :D
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Re: 2009 Kimi's last season?

Post by lealjaime » 16 Jul 2009, 19:08

i waiting for alonso next year
Off-Topic: show
finaly i can pay my internet to get back on track :roll::
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Re: 2009 Kimi's last season?

Post by blizzard » 16 Jul 2009, 19:15

Hehe ok ok guys,

first: I didn´t want to talk you out of supporting Kimi. :O

And I think it´s not fair, that Kimi get´s about 80% stick in the media and Massa only 20%. In theory Kimi is twice the driver Massa is.
Massa is a good racing driver now, but he´s surely not one of those in the top 20 of all time. Maybe not even top 50 (quite likely not). Kimi in his McLaren days could make my top 20 list. He won races back in those days, that Coulthard or Montoya couldn´t win and that´s the ultimate ability for a racing driver, to get a special and unexpected result out of an inferior car.

Let´s put all the McLaren - Ferrari, Kimi - Schumi and Kimi - Hamilton comparisons aside for a second and take Vettel in Monza 2008 as an example. He managed to get a very special result in an average car and got pole and win. Kimi has the ability to get such results too ( in the dry :p ), but it just hasn´t happened since he´s a Ferrari driver.

So I think it´s more frustration not only by me, but probably by most Ferrari fans that Kimi can´t fulfill his true potential in the red car. For whatever reason. Nobody expects impossible things from Massa, because he is not as gifted as Kimi, anmd that´s probably why Kimi get´s so much stick in the media and from people like me :)

He is capable of doing it, but it just doesn´t happen and that´s frustrating. And the fact, that he is not somebody who likes to talk loud and big time, it adds to the impression that his fire lapsed. This might or might not be true, but I will remember Kimi as a fantastically talented driver and I used to like him back in the Sauber days and in 2002 and 2005. It´s just sad and annoying that he wasn´t the same Kimi at Ferrari.

I think it is possible to win a race in the Ferrari this year, the car is not that bad and a Kimi in his 2005 form might have won a race. Or a rain specialist like Vettel might have won in China this year in the Ferrari.

Anyway, no disrespect for Red Bull and Brawn, they´re doing a great job, but I would like to see Ferrari vs McLaren again. In 2007 when Kimi joined Ferrari and Fernando McLaren, I though: Wow what a fight for the next 3 years. Fantastic. But it all came different. Judging by the potential this rivalry had, it could have been one of the best competitions in the history.
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Re: 2009 Kimi's last season?

Post by sejtur » 16 Jul 2009, 19:32

And this comes from the one who called Kimi and Massa idiots/clowns? :p

It's hard enough supporting Kimi without you saying bad things about him already :O

I'm very frustrated like you, with how it went, it could have been so much better. I was last year feeling bad after a lot of races, especially Singapore. That was really bad, and Kimi put all the people that supported him through a hard time, just like himself. But he was and is still motivated, just look at the vid I posted. He still talks everything but loud, but those words weren't coming from somebody who feels that he doesn't belong there.

It's the choice of the fans (or whatever) and the media to either take Kimi down or take it up for him.

For your dream for the next 3 years; the Alonso - McLaren/Lewis combo didn't went well so Alonso went back to Renault anyway. It's not all Kimi's fault ;) And alonso probably made some mistakes in 2007 too, but I can't remember it right now.

I hope that Ferrari wins at least one race this year, because that's where they belong. It was kinda unfair that Red Bull and Brawn had so much time to develop this years car. And they did a great job too. But Ferrari simply belongs at #1 for me. The target of Formula 1 is to beat the Ferrari team. :p
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Re: 2009 Kimi's last season?

Post by phil1993 » 16 Jul 2009, 21:42

Santander (sponsor) going to Ferrari
Ferrari celebration thing held in Spain this year
Renault is very bad this year
Kimi eyeing rally

all adding up...

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Re: 2009 Kimi's last season?

Post by phil1993 » 16 Jul 2009, 21:43

Totopupu wrote:
I´ve said my two cents about Kimi and that won´t change. He can´t lick Alonso´s boots, even Vettel and Hamilton can eat him alive. Every time it starts to rain since the traction control is gone, Kimi is spinning around like Kylie Minogue :lol:

Spa 08 is the best example, yes Lewis made a few mistakes too, but he psychologically owned Kimi easiliy that day. The way Kimi shunted the Ferrari under Hamilton´s pressure was just ridiculous. Or Silverstone last season or Monza and and and the guy can´t drive in the rain, the same goes for Massa, Ferrari make themselves look like fools with these drivers. In my humble oppinion Ferrari needs thoroughbreds like Alesi, G.Villeneuve, Schumacher, Berger. Even Eddie Irvine was way better than those two clowns in the rain. He got a lot of podiums in wet races. Kimi can only finish wet races on the podium with traction control, like Fuji 2007.
WHAT??

Nurburgring 07: Hamilton make a lot of error and Kimi is unlucky with his team strategy
Fuji 07: Ferrari has a problem with tyres at start, so Kimi is penalized and Hamilton must make a huge brake test for win against Webber
China 07: Superb driving of Kimi, very bad strategy of McLaren

Monaco 08: Hamilton make an error like Raikkonen but a lot of people missed to say that Kimi has got a stop and go at start (too late change of tyres)
Silverstone 08: Kimi is faster than Hamilton, but at pitstop, Ferrari choose the bad tyres.
Monza 08: great Lewis and normal Kimi
Belgium 08: Hamilton cheat on rain again
Interlagos 08: Kimi finish 3rd and Hamilton make a bad driving.

China 09: No comment for Lewis!

So Kimi is better than Hamilton
Anyway, can we leave the whole Spa 2008 thing behind...

And Silverstone 08, no one was gonna beat Lewis that day

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