Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

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Ali
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Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

Post by Ali » 19 May 2009, 18:45

Perfect marriage between Ferrari and FIA are now shattering. And thanks to their squabble, we've been knowing some facts which we even couldn't dare to dream. One team has had the right to veto any technical rule in the regulations for 11 years. Can you imagine the consequences of this hidden (or known by other teams) agreement? If Ferrari felt that any technical rule was against their "thinking", then they could veto it. How on earth a regulatory body like FIA could grant such a right to one team solely, just because they've participated all F1 organizations? Or is there any other team granted with the same or any other right? I'm lost for words.

And now, we are waiting for an outcome to learn who will govern the new era: FIA or Ferrrai? What a c**p!
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Re: Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

Post by phil1993 » 19 May 2009, 18:58

I know. I read it in Autosport. No wonder they get the decisions for them. The reason is: look at the crowd, what are they wearing: Ferrari cap, Ferrari shirt, Ferrari trousers, Ferrari flag, Ferrari earplugs, Ferrari bottle, Ferrari rucksack, Ferrari everything! £$£$£$£$£$ for FIA, without Ferrari, half the people will switch off but also, a large part of F1 will die.

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Re: Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

Post by AzShadow » 19 May 2009, 19:52

Has Ferrari actually used this veto? I haven't seen any reports about it being used and I'm sure the other teams would have noticed it and said something about it. In 2005 there were massive rule changes and Ferrari just plain sucked that season. Sure, it was mostly because of the bad Bridgestone tyres though, but still if they had this veto, they could have prevented those rules I guess and continued their 2004 domination on and on.
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Re: Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

Post by Ali » 19 May 2009, 19:58

AzShadow wrote:Has Ferrari actually used this veto? I haven't seen any reports about it being used

Given that they recorded 8 constructor and 6 driver titles during 1999-2008 (right after the so called concorde agreement), one can rightly suspect that they might have used it. And do you really expect any report could be available for such a hidden agreement?
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Re: Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

Post by AzShadow » 19 May 2009, 20:11

Well, obviously if FIA tells the rules to Ferrari first and then they change it, I could understand. But if FIA tells the rules to the whole public, then it would be quite suspicious if they change all of a sudden. At this stage it seems more like conspiracy theories for me. Just look at this season and its heavily revised technical rules for instance. I'm pretty sure Ferrari would have used the veto if they had been able to do so.
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Re: Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

Post by Ali » 19 May 2009, 20:30

We don't know the mechanism alleged to be granted to Ferrari yet and I am not sure we will learn it somehow. As you know, Ferrari have a seat in WMSC, where rules and regulations are stipulated. So, technical veto right might well and truly be exercised in these meetings. Remember, 2010 rule changes were accepted in an "extra ordinary" WMSC meeting, which was originally set to discuss so called Lie-Gate. Thinking that way, this injunction application makes sense.

It's not a conspiracy theory but an approved situation by both Ferrari guys and Mosley. Ferrari have made their application based on this right to veto.
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Re: Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

Post by AzShadow » 19 May 2009, 20:54

I'm not questioning the veto itself but the claim that this might've been used to win championships. Because if that's the case, then it doesn't make much sense for Ferrari to have such unpleasant rules for them now and in 2005. But I guess we'd have to wait for more details to come out if somebody decides to leak them.
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Re: Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

Post by swca92 » 19 May 2009, 21:28

I'm amazed at this, I thought about things like this and dismissed it as a mad conspiracy theory. So since 1998, Ferrari have effectively been cheating. And I know every other team cheats, but not nearly to this extent. I've never liked Ferrari and this makes me feel even lower of them.

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Re: Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

Post by JoostLamers » 19 May 2009, 21:30

FIArrari :zz:

No, joking, but this outcome is absolutely ridiculous, it's cheating big time!
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Re: Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

Post by Totopupu » 20 May 2009, 11:15

Why a cheat ??
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Re: Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

Post by Ali » 20 May 2009, 11:17

I don't think we can call it "cheating" as it seems to be legally binding agreement between FIA and Ferrari. Dishonest and unethical yes but not cheating. I'm sure so many people aware of that agreement.
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Re: Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

Post by blizzard » 20 May 2009, 14:32

Well they couldn´t do anything against the new rules in 2005, which destroyed their superiority and threw them back into midfield.

They also couldn´t do anything against the introduction of V8´s, although they struggled with the V8 at the beginning, but had one of the best V10´s and the most reliable.


So Veto is nice, but it doesn´t automatically mean that the proposal will be scrapped if you vote against it.

I think the Veto was meant more in an overrall way and not to secure a technical advantage for Ferrari.
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Re: Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

Post by megasyxx » 20 May 2009, 14:47

there you go....the c**p and bull sh*t of the politics within f1. f1 now left as a "pure, plain business" not before that was purely a sport, to entertain the fans, to know who really the best was.

the best thing for this one really is a break-away series to compete with f1. competition brings out the best - may the better series survive, and the only winners are the fans (and the driver's salaries as well :lol: )
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Re: Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

Post by AzShadow » 20 May 2009, 20:12

It seems that many people, chiefly British, have been mocking Ferrari a lot, but the other teams have apparently been aware of these special rights of Ferrari and accepted them too in their contracts:
http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... ry_state0=
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Re: Ferrari has had technical veto in F1 since 1998

Post by Ali » 22 May 2009, 08:13

From the press conference yesterday - Teams were aware of Ferrari's right
Q. (Richard Williams – The Guardian) Question to Frank and Mario: in the recent days it's emerged that Ferrari have appeared to have a right of unilateral veto over changes to the technical regulations in Formula One. Was this a surprise to either of you, had you known about it all along, do you think it's the right thing to happen, that a team should be granted such rights?

Frank Williams: I'll listen to Mario's answer first.

Mario Theissen: When FOTA was founded, we very quickly touched on the issue of the different positions of the individual teams. It was clear that the individual teams have different contracts with the FOA and we all accepted that. We knew about it and we said that everything that is in place is as it is and we deal with it and accept it as it is. In my view what Ferrari does now is in the interest of FOTA because they use the possibility to make the position of FOTA clear.

FW: Well, it's a difficult subject to answer because a lawyer might say that this is a question that goes above the FIA to another international body but keeping it within the sport is probably not the best of the events. I think many of us thought it mainly made a commercial advantage and that would be what they deserve but given Ferrari's longevity in the sport and being its backbone, it hasn't caused any ruffled feathers or waves until now.
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