Diffuser Controversy

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Should the diffusers of three teams be banned?

Poll ended at 14 Apr 2009, 11:41

Yes
11
34%
No
20
63%
I have no freaking idea
1
3%
 
Total votes: 32

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iceman1
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Re: Diffuser Controversy

Post by iceman1 » 14 Apr 2009, 18:39

Here's a story from Autosport its Ned Flanders and his view on why they should find the 'diffuser 3' Illegal

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74462



http://www.f1central.fr/actualites/1/63 ... etard.html
Ferrari and Red Bull Racing would be the two teams to be most affected if the Court of Appeal of the FIA International declares tomorrow that double diffuser is legal.

Le magazine allemand Auto Motor und Sport rapporte que, en raison de l'agencement de la suspension arrière et de la boîte de vitesses, le directeur technique de Ferrari Aldo Costa est soupçonné de projeter l'introduction du double diffuseur sur la F60 seulement pour le Grand Prix de Turquie en juin. The German magazine Auto Motor und Sport reported that, due to the layout of the rear suspension and gearbox, the Ferrari technical director Aldo Costa is suspected of planning the introduction of dual diffuser on the F60 for only Turkish Grand Prix in June.

Ferrari aurait également estimé le développement de ce double diffuseur à 40 millions d'euros. Ferrari have also considered the development of this double diffuser 40 million.

Red Bull Racing serait dans une situation similaire, alors que BMW Sauber, McLaren Mercedes et Renault pourraient être capables de débuter avec leur double diffuseur dès le début de la saison européenne, en Espagne, en mai. Red Bull Racing is in a similar position, while BMW Sauber, McLaren Mercedes and Renault may be able to start with their dual diffuser from the beginning of the European season, Spain, May

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sejtur
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Re: Diffuser Controversy

Post by sejtur » 14 Apr 2009, 19:41

Damn, 40 million is a lot. **** the FIA if they decide the illegal diffuser is legal, theyll be going against Max's cost cut. It would be really weird. But again, they might think, Ferrari has so much money that they can afford it. :(
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swca92
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Re: Diffuser Controversy

Post by swca92 » 14 Apr 2009, 19:57

But if the diffuser is legal, the cost is irrelevant. Also if they put the difuser on the car in the first place they wouldn't spend all that money building effectively a new rear end (Not a Max Mosley pun).

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sejtur
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Re: Diffuser Controversy

Post by sejtur » 14 Apr 2009, 20:25

ahaha.
Well, to me it says alot that Ferrari hasn't built the rear.. of the car suiting a double or triple diffuser, they really expected it to be illegal. And you know, Ferrari was always on the edge with the rules.. and I read that the diffuser influences the whole rear of the car. That's gotta be expensive. But 40 mil I dunno either.
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megasyxx
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Re: Diffuser Controversy

Post by megasyxx » 14 Apr 2009, 20:47

the best scenarios would be: diffusers illegal, but the teams involved would keep their points -OR- diffusers legal, copy and paste time for the other teams :lol:
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TwistedArmco
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Re: Diffuser Controversy

Post by TwistedArmco » 14 Apr 2009, 21:03

swca92 wrote:...building effectively a new rear end (Not a Max Mosley pun).


Mwahahaha! Skin graft for Max's behind? :lol:


In all honesty, part of me wishes the diffuser is banned. It will throw the season so wide open, 1982 stylee.
No, I'm not calmer. Just more jaded.

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metalhead188
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Re: Diffuser Controversy

Post by metalhead188 » 14 Apr 2009, 22:04

sejtur wrote:ahaha.
Well, to me it says alot that Ferrari hasn't built the rear.. of the car suiting a double or triple diffuser, they really expected it to be illegal. And you know, Ferrari was always on the edge with the rules.. and I read that the diffuser influences the whole rear of the car. That's gotta be expensive. But 40 mil I dunno either.




The haven't built the controversial rear diffuser because the FOTA wrote the regulation for it and the teams that took part in it are the ones that followed the intent of the regulations

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AzShadow
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Re: Diffuser Controversy

Post by AzShadow » 15 Apr 2009, 05:56

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090414151443.shtml wrote:Renault prepared to use new diffuser

The lawyer representing Renault at the diffuser hearing in Paris on Tuesday confirmed the French team is ready to deploy its own version of the controversial design.

The legal representative, Andrew Ford, told the FIA's Court of Appeal judges that Renault started work on the concept and asked representatives of the governing body if it would be legal.

"It is not that Renault missed the boat (...) it is because the FIA said it was illegal," he said.

Ford revealed Renault could immediately deploy an initial version of the design, theoretically in China this weekend, should the court throw out its appeal against the stewards' rulings authorising the controversial diffusers.
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Ali
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Re: Diffuser Controversy

Post by Ali » 15 Apr 2009, 07:22

F1-Live: "During a lengthy and detailed exchange debating the definition of a 'hole', one of the FIA judges, Malta's Guido de Marco, reportedly fell asleep more than once."

:lol:
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jianh
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Re: Diffuser Controversy

Post by jianh » 15 Apr 2009, 07:30

i think they shouldn't be banned
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Jaguar
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Re: Diffuser Controversy

Post by Jaguar » 15 Apr 2009, 07:40

after i read same topics on Pitpass and GPupdate which Ferrari lawyer is striking Brawn i believe the Diffusers of all 3 teams are declared Legal already ... and as some teams are already ready to use new Diffusers like Renault and i read that McLaren is ready too i guess its so close to declare the diffusers legal 100% ...

as for the penalty RBR and Ferrari will take ... 40 mill $ ? is this even too much for RBR :P maybe for Ferrari yeah but i guess the Bull can handle it :lol:

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Re: Diffuser Controversy

Post by phil1993 » 15 Apr 2009, 08:20

McLaren will be fined $40m and it shall be given to Ferrari for their new diffuser :p

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Ali
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Re: Diffuser Controversy

Post by Ali » 15 Apr 2009, 09:22

Diffusers found legal at court of appeal
In an official statement, the judges at the court of appeal in Paris have confirmed that the double deck diffusers are legal. Hence the earlier decision of the stewards at the Australian and Malaysian GP has been confirmed.

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http://www.f1technical.net/news/12129
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Re: Diffuser Controversy

Post by iceman1 » 15 Apr 2009, 09:25

Time for the other teams to start work
The FIA International Court of Appeal has decided to deny the appeals submitted against decisions numbered 16 to 24 taken by the Panel of the Stewards on 26 March at the 2009 Grand Prix of Australia and counting towards the 2009 FIA Formula One World Championship.


Based on the arguments heard and evidence before it, the Court has concluded that the Stewards were correct to find that the cars in question comply with the applicable regulations.


Full reasons for this decision will be provided in due course.

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Re: Diffuser Controversy

Post by phil1993 » 15 Apr 2009, 09:27

damn, you beat me to the story by 1 minute :p

The FIA International Court of Appeal has declared the double-decker diffuser designs used by Brawn GP, Toyota and Williams as legal.

Following overnight deliberation by the judges after a court hearing in Paris on Tuesday, the ICA has rejected the appeals lodged by Ferrari, Red Bull Racing, Renault. BMW Sauber and McLaren had also entered the appeal as affected parties.

A statement issued by the FIA on Wednesday morning said: "The FIA International Court of Appeal has decided to deny the appeals submitted against decisions numbered 16 to 24 taken by the Panel of the Stewards on 26 March at the 2009 Grand Prix of Australia and counting towards the 2009 FIA Formula One World Championship.

"Based on the arguments heard and evidence before it, the Court has concluded that the Stewards were correct to find that the cars in question comply with the applicable regulations."

The ICA's decision is a blow to those teams that did not pursue the design concept when they created their 2009 cars - as it is widely accepted that the double-decker diffusers have brought a performance advantage.

Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen suggested last week that the diffuser decision would be vital for the outcome of the world title - with his team likely to have to wait for several races before being able to fit a suitable one to their car.

"The FIA's Court of Appeal will decide about the diffuser and this decision will have an enormous impact on the championship," Raikkonen said.

"We're missing grip and downforce. You just need to analyse the performance in the three sectors at Sepang to understand that we're losing a lot compared to the best cars. You could see it especially in the middle sector where downforce is really crucial.

The row over the diffusers has also led to intense confrontation between the rival factions – with Brawn GP team principal Ross Brawn being on the receiving end of attacks from Renault and Ferrari about his use of the diffuser concept.

However, he has stood firm in his belief that the design was legal – and confirmed recently that he offered rivals the chance to close off the regulations to prevent teams exploiting the diffuser designs, but they rejected the opportunity.

"In March 2008 that was offered," said Brawn, when asked by AUTOSPORT about the matter.

"If I'm frank I didn't say 'look we are going to do this diffuser if you don't accept this rule' because I'm not going to tell people what we're doing, but I explained that I felt that we should have a different set of rules to simplify what needs to be done.

"I offered them and they were rejected, so my conscience is very clear. And those rules that I put on the table would have stopped a lot of things. It would have stopped the diffuser, it would have stopped all those bargeboards around the front, and it would have cleaned the cars up.

"Because it was clear that when we started to work on the regulations that there were things that you could do, and we needed to perhaps clean them up, but nobody was interested. They are interested now."

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