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 Post subject: Re: £40m Budget Cap and Controversies
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2009, 15:37  
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Start your own series, Mosley tells FOTA

FIA president Max Mosley has indicated that the governing body is not about to bow to demands being placed on it by Formula 1's current teams about their entry to the 2010 championship.

Nine of the sport's current competitors submitted their entries to next year's championship on the condition that a new Concorde Agreement was signed by June 12 and that next year's cost-cutting rule changes are abandoned in favour of their preferred regulations.

However, speaking to Swiss publication Motorsport Aktuell, Mosley has made it clear that it is unlikely a Concorde Agreement can be put together in such a short time frame - and he has suggested the rebel teams go off and set up their own championship if they are unhappy.

"A Concorde Agreement which one receives so late can't be signed by June 12," Mosley was quoted as saying.

"We now have a conflict and we will see who succeeds in the end. I say to them: If you want to draw up your own rules, then you can organise your own championship. But we have the Formula 1 championship.

"We draw up the rules for that. We have been doing that for 60 years and we will continue doing so."

With a whole host of new teams having submitted entries to next year's championship, there are no shortage of competitors who can fill the grid if current teams do not wish to compete.

Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali said last week that if the conditions laid down by FOTA's nine members were not accepted, then their entries would be invalid.

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 Post subject: Re: £40m Budget Cap and Controversies
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2009, 16:05  
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FIA president Max Mosley has made it clear that the governing body will stand its ground over its controversial 2010 budget cap plan and will not bow to the demands of the Formula One Teams’ Association.

The nine active FOTA members – all of the current F1 grid bar Williams – submitted entries for the 2010 world championship last Friday, but said they were conditional on the planned budget cap being dropped and their influence over the rule-making process being restored via a new Concorde Agreement.

Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali and Toyota’s F1 president John Howett have since issued statements emphasising the teams’ resolve, with Domenicali declaring starkly that the nine entries would be “invalid” if FOTA’s terms are not met.

After keeping his own counsel for several days, Mosley has now thrown down the gauntlet to the nine ‘rebel’ teams – calling on them to set up their own championship if they are unhappy with F1’s current governance.

“I say to them: If you want to make the rules, then go and organise your own championship,” he told Swiss publication Motorsport Aktuell.

“But we have the Formula 1 championship. We draw up the rules for that.

“We’ve been doing that for 60 years and we will continue to do so.”

One of FOTA’s conditions is for a new Concorde Agreement – which would bind the signatory teams to F1 until 2012, but would also take rule-making power away from the FIA World Council – to be signed by June 12, when the governing body will announce the successful 2010 entrants.

But Mosley says there is insufficient time to finalise a new agreement by that date: “You cannot sign an agreement that was drawn up so late by June 12.”

He also suggested FOTA’s conditions are a delaying tactic intended to keep out prospective new teams.

“It’s quite clear that they want to slow down the process of application to the championship so that it will be too late for the new teams,” he said.

A steady stream of new teams – of varying degrees of credibility – have confirmed that their intention to join F1 next year under the budget cap option, as has Williams; while the FIA insists that Ferrari is bound by contractual obligations to compete until 2012.

So although the united stance of the nine FOTA teams gives them a strong negotiating hand, the FIA is holding out the threat that they will lose their places on next year’s grid unless they drop their conditions and sign up to the regulations as they currently stand.


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 Post subject: Re: £40m Budget Cap and Controversies
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2009, 17:02  
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:wave: to the FOTA!
:wave: to the good old F1!

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 Post subject: Re: £40m Budget Cap and Controversies
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2009, 19:16  
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An idea: If teams want to spend more than £40m, why don't FIA make it £50m per car, so teams like Ferrari could have 5 cars, that would be kinda cool.

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 Post subject: Re: £40m Budget Cap and Controversies
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2009, 19:21  
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Teams seeking solution, not new series
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75812
Spoiler:
Formula 1's current teams remain wholly committed to finding a solution to their dispute with the FIA over the future of the sport, despite suggestions from Max Mosley that they should go off and do their own series.

With no solution yet in sight in the row over a £40 million budget cap for next year, the nine members of the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) are awaiting a response from the FIA about the conditions they laid down for them to enter next year's championship.

They want a Concorde Agreement signed by next week, plus the current plans for 2010 regulation changes to be abandoned, in favour of their own proposals. The FIA is due to reveal the 2010 entrants on June 12.

Although the teams have not yet had an official response from the FIA about the conditions of their entry, Mosley suggested in an interview with Motorsport Aktuell that if FOTA was unhappy with the proposed rules it should form a breakaway championship.

BMW motorsport director Mario Theissen made it clear in Turkey on Thursday, however, that FOTA was far more interested in reaching a deal with the FIA than going off and doing its own series.

"We are now really committed to find a solution with the FIA to go forward together," he explained. "That is all I want to say at this point of time."

Theissen said that FOTA did not have any plans to meet this weekend to discuss the situation, although it would do so if the FIA responded.

"We would be ready to sit down immediately," he explained.

Although there have been some causes for optimism in the past week that the teams and the FIA were heading for a solution, Theissen was more cautious about the chances of the matter getting sorted by next week.

"I said after the meeting in Monaco that the situation is difficult, it is critical and it is not solved yet, and the same applies today," he said.

Theissen also revealed that the decision by FOTA to lodge conditional entries was suggested to them by Mosley.

"When we had the meeting with Max [Mosley] in Monaco, it was his idea to put in a conditional entry," he said.

Quote:
Theissen also revealed that the decision by FOTA to lodge conditional entries was suggested to them by Mosley.

"When we had the meeting with Max [Mosley] in Monaco, it was his idea to put in a conditional entry," he said.

So Mosley backstabbed them as he knew that the conditional entries would be invalid from the start. :zz:

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 Post subject: Re: £40m Budget Cap and Controversies
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2009, 06:58  
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Toyota confirm on 5Live that a breakaway championship has been spoken about within FOTA but would prefer a resolution is found with the FIA

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 Post subject: Re: £40m Budget Cap and Controversies
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2009, 07:53  
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BREAKING NEWS: FOTA falling apart

Force India submitted entry for 2010
Code:
http://www.f1complete.com/content/view/12974/900/

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 Post subject: Re: £40m Budget Cap and Controversies
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2009, 08:01  
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Oh sake, we're gonna have FOTA1 next year with 7 teams with 3 cars each I think

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 Post subject: Re: £40m Budget Cap and Controversies
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2009, 08:56  
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So Max has no intention of reaching a compromise, and wants the £40 million cap with technical freedoms. He'll kill F1 if he remains this damn stubborn.
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 Post subject: Re: £40m Budget Cap and Controversies
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2009, 09:00  
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swca92 wrote:
So Max has no intention of reaching a compromise, and wants the £40 million cap with technical freedoms. He'll kill F1 if he remains this damn stubborn.


I'm think Max will quit in October and the new FIA president will sort it out. But I'd like for STR and RBR to merge, have 7 teams (Williams and FI submitted separate entries) with 3 cars each. Then we could have:

Ferrari: Raikkonen, Massa, Alonso
McLaren: Hamilton, Kovalainen, Rosberg
Renault: Piquet, Grosjean, di Grassi
Toyota: Glock, Trulli, Sutil
Red Bull Racing: Vettel, Webber, Buemi
Brawn GP: Button, Barrichello, Davidson
BMW: Kubica, Heidfeld, Klien

Fisi and Naka can go home and Bourdais can go off to LMES/Indy Car

and have a calendar like this:

Albert Park-------------- Australia
Fuji ----------------Pacific
Imola------------------ San Marino
Portimao ------------Portugal
Monte Carlo-------------- Monaco
Circuit Gilles Villeneuve----------- Canada
Indianapolis------------ USA
Porto de los Funes Circuit--------- Argentina
Magny Cours---------------- France
Silverstone-------- Britain
Nurburgring---------------- Germany
Valencia Street Circuit------------- Spain
Donington Park-------- Europe
Spa Francorchamps------- Belgium
Monza----------- Italy
Singapore--------- Singapore
Suzuka-------- Japan
Interlagos ----------Brazil


Good idea or am I mad?

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 Post subject: Re: £40m Budget Cap and Controversies
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2009, 13:41  
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phil1993 wrote:
swca92 wrote:
So Max has no intention of reaching a compromise, and wants the £40 million cap with technical freedoms. He'll kill F1 if he remains this damn stubborn.


I'm think Max will quit in October and the new FIA president will sort it out. But I'd like for STR and RBR to merge, have 7 teams (Williams and FI submitted separate entries) with 3 cars each. Then we could have:

Ferrari: Raikkonen, Massa, Alonso
McLaren: Hamilton, Kovalainen, Rosberg
Renault: Piquet, Grosjean, di Grassi
Toyota: Glock, Trulli, Sutil
Red Bull Racing: Vettel, Webber, Buemi
Brawn GP: Button, Barrichello, Davidson
BMW: Kubica, Heidfeld, Klien

Fisi and Naka can go home and Bourdais can go off to LMES/Indy Car

and have a calendar like this:

Albert Park-------------- Australia
Fuji ----------------Pacific
Imola------------------ San Marino
Portimao ------------Portugal
Monte Carlo-------------- Monaco
Circuit Gilles Villeneuve----------- Canada
Indianapolis------------ USA
Porto de los Funes Circuit--------- Argentina
Magny Cours---------------- France
Silverstone-------- Britain
Nurburgring---------------- Germany
Valencia Street Circuit------------- Spain
Donington Park-------- Europe
Spa Francorchamps------- Belgium
Monza----------- Italy
Singapore--------- Singapore
Suzuka-------- Japan
Interlagos ----------Brazil


Good idea or am I mad?


You are mad ... even i dun like ur idea sorry lol ...

Now the Question is who will be in from those several teams who sent their entry
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 Post subject: Re: £40m Budget Cap and Controversies
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2009, 13:54  
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Force India facing FOTA suspension
Howett: "It is likely they may be suspended. I haven't really had the opportunity to speak to Vijay directly, but he has committed in accordance with FOTA a conditional entry and apparently, due to commercial issues, totally unrelated to another team or support, they felt obliged because of other binding legal activities due to funding or other issues, they needed to submit an official entry."
Code:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75832

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 Post subject: Re: £40m Budget Cap and Controversies
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2009, 06:23  
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My colleague Michael Schmidt of Auto Motor und Sport has jogged my memory of something I looked at around the time when the Formula One Teams Association was formed, last September.

I remember asking Ron Dennis how the FOTA teams were going to make sure that Ferrari didn’t repeat what it had done in 2005 and split off to side with the FIA when it suited them. He replied that Ferrari was looking at things quite differently now and that in any case the manufacturers had all agreed to bind themselves to each other by agreeing a fine if one of them broke away.

Michael has written today that the fine is €50 million. Now I think about it, this has to be considered central to the way FOTA is conducting itself at the moment. In other words the five teams; Ferrari, McLaren Mercedes, Toyota, Renault and BMW Sauber are a block.

But the fact remains that if the FIA goes to court and can prove that Ferrari has a binding contract to race in F1 in 2010 then the game will be up for the others.

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 Post subject: Re: £40m Budget Cap and Controversies
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2009, 17:58  
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Mosley's Response: FOTA should enter to shape F1
FIA president Max Mosley has written to the eight remaining Formula One Teams' Association members urging them to enter next year's championship unconditionally so they can help shape the rules they want, AUTOSPORT can reveal.
Spoiler:
After a weekend of high tension at the Turkish Grand Prix ahead of the publication on Friday of the 2010 entry list, Mosley's much-awaited response to the eight FOTA teams appeared conciliatory.

Mosley claimed that the best way the teams could help mould the future of the sport the way they wanted would be to drop the conditions attached to the entries they had made to the 2010 championship.

In fact, he reckoned it would be 'simple' to find a solution to FOTA's concerns about new rules if all the teams lodged unconditional entries and signed up for a budget cap - before helping create new regulations.

In the letter sent to Ferrari, McLaren, BMW Sauber, Renault, Red Bull Racing, Toro Rosso, Toyota and Brawn, Mosley said that he wanted to sit down with all the 2010 teams later this month to begin discussions about framing such rules.

To do that, he therefore wanted the FOTA members to confirm by tomorrow that they wanted to compete in 2010 so he could press ahead with his plans.

"Under the International Sporting Code (Art. 66) we cannot now change the published 2010 rules unless we have the consent of all the competitors who have entered," wrote Mosley in the letter, a copy of which has been seen by AUTOSPORT. "However once we have a list of confirmed entries, we can make changes provided we have the necessary unanimous agreement.

"You therefore have the option of participating in this process as a confirmed entrant, or not. In order to participate, you should now write to us confirming that your entry is unconditional.

"It is of course up to you, but the simplest way to ensure that all entrants run under the same rules would be if everyone entered under the cost-cap rules as published and then all entrants cooperated to agree modifications to those rules which would make the proposition workable for all parties."

The FIA is due to announce its 2010 F1 entry list on Friday, with Williams and Force India having already lodged unconditional entries - and at least 10 other new teams vying for a spot.

Mosley made it clear to FOTA's members that any rule changes had to be made in cooperation with any new outfits who made it onto the grid.

"We plan to arrange a meeting of all the confirmed 2010 teams immediately after 12 June in order to discuss the cost saving measures that have been proposed by the 2009 FOTA teams," he explained.

"We have already canvassed the views of some of the likely new entrants regarding the proposed measures and the feedback is broadly positive so a solution should be relatively simple to achieve.

"To this end, if you do intend to enter, it would be helpful if you would let us have drafts of the precise rules you wish adopted, as much of the Enclosure 3 submitted by FOTA on behalf of the 2009 teams is currently in the form of minutes and statements of intent rather than the clear rules which you [and we] seek.

"We look forward to a positive response. It would be helpful to have this no later than close of business on Tuesday 9 June."

As part of the conditions of the team's entries to next year's championship, FOTA had demanded that a new Concorde Agreement be signed by June 11 - just 24 hours before the entry list is lodged.

Mosley has made it clear that such a scenario is impossible - especially because it will be necessary for all the 2010 teams to sign such an agreement.

"As explained at both our recent meetings, the FIA is willing to enter into a Concorde Agreement dealing with all questions of governance and rule stability along the traditional lines first established in 1981," Mosley continued in his letter.

"The Agreement was renewed in 1998 to the satisfaction of all currently competing teams and renewed again in 2005 by us to the satisfaction of Ferrari and, we understand, by F~0~M to the satisfaction of a number of teams including Williams.

"We are ready to begin discussions immediately with a view to signing an agreement without delay. However, there is no possibility of this being concluded in advance of settling the 2010 entry list, a draft of several hundred pages having been produced at the last moment.

"Also, the FIA will need to know who to discuss the draft with. There will certainly be new teams in 2010 and it presently seems unlikely that all of the 2009 teams will participate in 2010. Obviously the draft should be discussed between those that will participate only."
Code:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75961

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 Post subject: Re: £40m Budget Cap and Controversies
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2009, 20:58  
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Still strong sounds of Renault, BMW and/or Toyota leaving F1, Olav Mol keeps saying he doesn't believe every team of 2009 will be on the grid in 2010. 9 Times out of 10, Olav is right..

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