Super Licence Saga

This forum gives you a chance to be able to communicate with your fellow F1 fans.

What do you think who is right?

Poll ended at 22 Feb 2009, 16:39

FIA (Federation Internationale de l'Automobile)
3
23%
GPDA (Grand Prix Drivers' Association)
10
77%
 
Total votes: 13

why so serious
kart driver
kart driver
Posts: 75
Joined: 28 Nov 2008, 16:25

Super Licence Saga

Post by why so serious » 07 Feb 2009, 16:37

As you may know FIA increased superlicence fees in 2008 by nearly %300, which eventually made the superlicence of 2008 F1 World Champion (Lewis Hamilton) $270.000 in order for him to be able to enter into 2009 F1 World Championship.

Max Mosley made it clear last week by underlining in a quite threatening way "In the present climate, somebody who is earning several million a year and doesn't want to spend one or two percent of that to get a licence for his trade is not going to get a lot of sympathy, and maybe we will have a quiet Friday in Melbourne..."

Code: Select all

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73145


After Max, GPDA today issued a counter statement which may indicate this debate will be a hot discussion until season openner. Do you agree in Mosley with the issue? Are drivers grumbling nonsensely?

"As a principle, the drivers should not be taxed to fund the costs of others fulfilling their legal duty to the drivers. It is the teams' duty to provide the driver with a safe car, it is the circuit owners' duty to provide a safe circuit and it is the duty of the manufacturers to provide helmets, fireproof overalls, etc. fit for the purpose of safety. The FIA, as the governing body, has a duty to impose safety regulations and to supervise through licensing the parties carrying out their duties, e.g. licensing a circuit. The licensing process for drivers is to ensure that the drivers are competent to race at the level necessary in Formula One."

Full Statement:
Spoiler:
In January 2008, the FIA unilaterally increased the Formula One drivers' fees for holding a Super Licence. The basic Super Licence fee for the 2008 season increased from EUR 1,690 in 2007 to EUR 10,000 representing a rise of nearly five-fold. In addition, the points' fees which are paid concurrently with the basic Super Licence fee increased from EUR 447 per point in 2007 to EUR 2,000 in 2008, an increase by a factor of nearly 3.5.

These increases were made without any prior consultation with the drivers, and the first the drivers knew of the increases was when the invoices were received by their respective teams and via the media in January 2008. The proposed increases are inherently unfair, both in the way they were introduced and the way they impact on individual drivers.

Since these increases were introduced by the FIA, they have been opposed unanimously by the drivers because they are unreasonable and unfair. The GPDA has - on behalf of all drivers holding Super Licences including the non-GPDA members - appropriately and professionally sought to resolve the issue privately with the FIA throughout the 2008 season, culminating in a meeting with Mr. Mosley at the Italian Grand Prix last September which opened up the way for further discussion.

This included a request from the FIA to the drivers to disclose their gross earnings. However, Mr. Mosley is incorrect in his claim to the media that he had not received an answer from the drivers as a letter was sent by the GPDA in December declining the request because it was not relevant to ascertaining the appropriate Super Licence fees. Furthermore, drivers' gross (and net) earnings are confidential to the drivers, their management and financial advisors and any relevant tax authorities, and should be respected as such.

In fact, Mr. Mosley himself alluded to such confidentiality in recent correspondence with the GPDA. On the subject of whether the Super Licence is paid by the team or the individual, Mr. Mosley concluded it was a private contractual matter between the driver and his team, and not a matter for the FIA.

The drivers are not opposed to a reasonable increase in the Super Licence fees, the fee which should cover the administrative and other costs relating to the issue of the licence.

Therefore, the drivers have offered to pay the 2007 Super Licence fees adjusted upwards by inflation for the 2008 season with a corresponding increase for the 2009 season.

In addition, the drivers have offered to explore fair ways in which they can assist the FIA in raising funds to meet the apparent EUR 1.7 million shortfall required to run the Federation in 2008 and a further EUR 3 million shortfall that will be required in 2009, according to the figures cited by Mr. Mosley at Monza.

The drivers contend that the Super Licence fees should not be a revenue stream for the FIA and such a change constitutes a major departure in principle for both past Super Licence fees and fees for any other drivers' licences. The FIA should raise sufficient funds from the exploitation of its commercial rights.

As a principle, the drivers should not be taxed to fund the costs of others fulfilling their legal duty to the drivers. It is the teams' duty to provide the driver with a safe car, it is the circuit owners' duty to provide a safe circuit and it is the duty of the manufacturers to provide helmets, fireproof overalls, etc. fit for the purpose of safety. The FIA, as the governing body, has a duty to impose safety regulations and to supervise through licensing the parties carrying out their duties, e.g. licensing a circuit. The licensing process for drivers is to ensure that the drivers are competent to race at the level necessary in Formula One.

FIGURES

* Already in 2007, the F1 Super Licence was the most expensive Licence payable by any sportsperson in the world
* In one year and without prior notice, it went up between 200% (basic fee) and 350% (fee per point)
* The winner of the 2008 F1 World Championship will have to pay $270.000
* The closest Licence Fee in the world is NASCAR in which each driver pays $4.000 per season
* The FIA qualifies the drivers' contribution to the running of the Federation to a total of EUR 1.7 million per season via our Super Licence fees.

Code: Select all

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73169

User avatar
phil1993
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25503
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 17:32
Contact:

Re: Super Licence Saga

Post by phil1993 » 07 Feb 2009, 20:31

First of all its ludicrous that its gone up by the amount it has...

.but their salaries are $$$$ every year and if you take Alonso/Kimi/Lewis salary thats about $500k a week (and we complain about footballers getting £100k/week) an when you consider this covers the inurance, you may think, oh thats a lot... but they'r going at 180mph and 10k isn't a lot out of £20m for example

But I will say the amount they pay per point is ludicrous though

User avatar
swca92
F1 Driver
F1 Driver
Posts: 2441
Joined: 26 Jan 2008, 21:24
Location: Enfield, London

Re: Super Licence Saga

Post by swca92 » 07 Feb 2009, 20:35

Its an unsubtle attempt to make more money.Its ludicrous,but for the drivers to be quibbling is stupid.They have money coming out of their arse,and owe everything to F1.Pay the money,though the FIA should be ashamed of themselves.

User avatar
Fr0ZzZeN
GP2 Driver
GP2 Driver
Posts: 238
Joined: 31 Jan 2009, 20:01
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Super Licence Saga

Post by Fr0ZzZeN » 07 Feb 2009, 20:36

swca92 wrote:Its an unsubtle attempt to make more money.Its ludicrous,but for the drivers to be quibbling is stupid.They have money coming out of their arse,and owe everything to F1.Pay the money,though the FIA should be ashamed of themselves.


:thumbsup: Exactly my thoughts.
Image

why so serious
kart driver
kart driver
Posts: 75
Joined: 28 Nov 2008, 16:25

Re: Super Licence Saga

Post by why so serious » 07 Feb 2009, 21:29

Drivers aren't so keen to disclose their salaries but everyone knows they are paid in huge amounts. What is more, they live in tax heavens so practically their net salaries are their gross salaries. They should be ashamed of being so greedy. FIA has done tremendous job for safety over the years and they must contribute to this effort. Having said that, I remember Coulthard's saying in 2000 British GP, walking back to the pits on his socks after his car broke down during a wet free practice: "I took my shoes off because I buy the boots and the team pays for the socks so I'd rather ruin the socks."

On the other hand, the way super licence fees are calculated are somewhat ill-conditioned given that all drivers benefit from these safety rules and regulations, not only those who earn more points in a season. Further, drivers aren't paid the same salary so FIA should change pricing system in that drivers should pay their super licence fees based on their salaries, not on points. Lewis Hamilton will pay $270.000 and Jenson Button will pay $5.000, who are thought to be paid nearly same amount of money. Is that fair? Driver who gets more point aren't benefited more from safety rules!

User avatar
Irishf1
kart driver
kart driver
Posts: 82
Joined: 03 Jan 2009, 22:14
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Super Licence Saga

Post by Irishf1 » 07 Feb 2009, 21:58

Complete bollocks. F1 drivers get paid a ton of money already, and they try and save as much of it as possible by living in places such as Monaco, where they don't have to pay taxes.
But paying more for more points is absolute bollocks as well. Honestly, shouldn't the driver that earns more points get more money for doing better? The F1 drivers should pay the higher rate for the superliscense, but not pay that much money for doing well in a season.

User avatar
coup
F1 Rookie
F1 Rookie
Posts: 645
Joined: 29 Mar 2008, 18:08
Location: North-West England

Re: Super Licence Saga

Post by coup » 08 Feb 2009, 07:20

You have got to admit that the FIA are very clever when it comes to making money- drivers need a superlicence, there's no way around that, so they put the price up.
Does anybody know what the FIA spend all this money on?
Image

why so serious
kart driver
kart driver
Posts: 75
Joined: 28 Nov 2008, 16:25

Re: Super Licence Saga

Post by why so serious » 08 Feb 2009, 10:22

coup wrote:
Does anybody know what the FIA spend all this money on?

Autosport wrote:"We spend a fortune on safety and most of it is for the benefit of the drivers," Mosley told reporters at a lunch.

"A lot of the people who have otherwise been meeting the bill said 'Hang on a minute, these drivers are all earning megabucks and we are spending a fortune to try and make sure they are safe.'

"So hence the increase."

Mosley said the extra money raised would go "into the FIA coffers" but the governing body would also be spending far more on safety than in the past.

User avatar
Suntrek
GP2 Driver
GP2 Driver
Posts: 498
Joined: 30 Jul 2007, 23:32
Location: Sweden

Re: Super Licence Saga

Post by Suntrek » 08 Feb 2009, 13:19

IMO it's Maxxx' argument "they should pay for their own safety" that's ludicrous.

Is it a pole vaulter's duty to pay for the mattress he lands on?

Is it a downhill skier's job to pay for the snow cannons so the slope is safe and the snow suitable for skiing?

Is it an icehockey player's job to pay for ice maintenace?

I don't care how much money the drivers make, to claim they should pay for their own safety is simply WRONG.
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

User avatar
coup
F1 Rookie
F1 Rookie
Posts: 645
Joined: 29 Mar 2008, 18:08
Location: North-West England

Re: Super Licence Saga

Post by coup » 08 Feb 2009, 16:11

also, safety was just as good in the years when the drivers paid the lower price for the licenses. Has the price of the barriers suddenly rocketed?
Image

User avatar
shailf1
F1 Routinier
F1 Routinier
Posts: 6531
Joined: 11 May 2008, 09:03
Location: Classified

Re: Super Licence Saga

Post by shailf1 » 08 Feb 2009, 20:33

Well, I think this is a funny type of question in a way. What I think is none of them are actually right. I mean, you are paid so much in a year and refusing to pay just a small percent of your income is not understandable. Also FIA have no reason to increase the proce of super license by this much amount. It is understandable that the cost of everyhting is going up but it isnt going up bu 300% is it? Bernie is asking for more money to the tracks and it is creating problems and in the other hand Max is asking for more money to the drivers.

User avatar
metalhead188
GP2 Driver
GP2 Driver
Posts: 228
Joined: 08 Dec 2007, 20:54

Re: Super Licence Saga

Post by metalhead188 » 09 Feb 2009, 18:16

i have no problem with the increase if the money went back to the fans.. its total bull "safety improvements" no that money goes into max's greedy pockets so he can pay all the lawyers... take the money and put it into the n-cap program to help make passenger cars safer

Fergie1
F1 Driver
F1 Driver
Posts: 1405
Joined: 03 Jan 2008, 21:04

Re: Super Licence Saga

Post by Fergie1 » 09 Feb 2009, 18:30

Its an even argument really, the drivers shouldn't be paid so much and nor should the FIA be charging so much. I've seen nothing in the past year that the FIA have spent money into further safety improvements (as technical regulations changes don't cost the FIA) so they can hardly request anymore.

User avatar
phil1993
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25503
Joined: 29 Sep 2007, 17:32
Contact:

Re: Super Licence Saga

Post by phil1993 » 09 Feb 2009, 18:33

The FIA saved Wurz's life through the cockpit being raised and Heikki's life through new barriers brought in in '08 that cushioned the blow for Heikki.

better pay more insurance for better safety than another Imola 94, huh, especially as these cars look dangerously narrow, almost like the 94 cars.

why so serious
kart driver
kart driver
Posts: 75
Joined: 28 Nov 2008, 16:25

Re: Super Licence Saga

Post by why so serious » 09 Feb 2009, 18:58

What Mark Webber talked about this issue today in a rather taunted way makes me a little worry about what's going to happen until season opener. FIA is firm, drivers are firm and this conflict must be resolved before the end of March.

Q. Max was suggesting that there might not be many teams running on Friday at Melbourne because drivers hadn't signed their superlicences...

MW: If we have more sets of tyres we'd probably run, but I'm surprised they haven't given us more sets of tyres...

Q. He was talking about the superlicences...

MW: I know.

Q. But it doesn't come over very well, drivers complaining about the costs of things?

MW: The statement has been put out. That's what has been put out.

Q. How about the timing of it - the big cost increase was last year. It's surprising that the bigger fuss is being made now...

MW: Read the statement. It's nothing to do with this year, it has been going on for so long.

Q. Leaving aside the arguments, don't you think in the current climate with people losing their jobs, for drivers to be complaining when they are earning millions...

MW: We'll see what happens.

Post Reply