Best driver who didnt become champion

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Who?

Gilles Villeneuve
33
43%
Ronnie Peterson
6
8%
Wolfgang Von Trips
0
No votes
Carlos Reutemann
1
1%
Rubens Barichello
6
8%
David Coulthard
7
9%
Clay Regazzoni
1
1%
Stirling Moss
16
21%
Jose-Froilan Gonzalez
0
No votes
Tony Brooks
0
No votes
Jacky Ickx
1
1%
Bruce McLaren
1
1%
Other - write in post who
4
5%
 
Total votes: 76

MP4/4#12
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Re: Best driver who didnt become champion

Post by MP4/4#12 » 16 Jan 2009, 15:25

blizzard wrote:Yes, I saw his heroics and yes I have the deepest possible respect for that, but he lacked consistency on the highest level in my oppinion. Alonso for example had 18 strong races out of 19 in 2005 or the fantastic racing brain of Alain Prost, who drove often perfectly in tactical terms and it won him 4 championships.

Gilles was probably one of the greatest talents ever, I agree with you in thzat point, but only considering the skills to drive the car as fast as possible. In tactical terms he was chanceless against Prost, in terms of consistency he was chanceless against Alonso and Schumacher.

I don´t claim that I´m right, I would never do that. It´s just the way I see Gilles, it´s not negative I think, but not as positive as most people do. But of course I didn´t live in the 70´s and early 80´s until he died, that may have biased my oppinion quite significcantly, like it did with Schumacher or Alonso, I think I rate them so highly, because I actually watched them live, all that remains from Villeneuve are stats and some footage, but not the emotions of seeing it live on TV or trackside, you know what I´m trying to say?


Chill out buddy :D
Your critics towards Gilles are based in consistency, and you`re right he wasnt, but blame the car not him, Ferrari cars were bad, those chassis were awfull and only the 12 cylinder boxer was good, still a bit heavy compared to Ford cosworth or the Turbos later on,if you see Gilles spining or trashing his cars it`s only because his personnal limits as a driver/human being were way beyond the limits of his cars. He only had a great car (Winning championship car) in 1979 and 1982; in the 1st scenario Jody had the chance to nail the title in one race (not sure about it, maybe Monza) and Gilles stayed in 2nd behind him although he still had chances to win it later on in the season, but he always respected his team, here`s a man with high personnal values, in the 1980 season the Ferrari was so bad that these same drivers struggled to qualify in some circuits and almost no points in the entire season. The 2nd one (1982) Ferrari had at last a winning car, with a Turbo engine and a couple of fast and fierce drivers with Didier Pironi alongside him, have no doubts that the 1982 title would be decided between these 2 guys, but those "wing-cars" were very dangerous as i`m sure you`ll know, instead of winning races and fighting for a championship the man lost his life. I understand the fact that if " if i didnt see it i cant avaluate it" thing, i`ve never seen Pele playing but i saw Maradona and he was a football genious, but if millions of fans say Pele was at the same (higher) level i guess he deserves to be it. Just image this: Mr. Enzo Ferrari was a terrible character to his drivers, he claimed that Ferrari cars won the races NOT the drivers, he really didnt care if a driver started to complaint about this or that, the fault was his, not the car, he even gave a silver "Cavallino Rampante" statue to Jody for his title and the statue had a broken leg... but Gilles Villeneuve was like a son to him, the old guy just loved this driver, so there you go...... :O

Sorry for the off topic guys.

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swca92
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Re: Best driver who didnt become champion

Post by swca92 » 16 Jan 2009, 22:18

Blizzard I see your point,but Villeneuve's still probably my favourite ever driver.Yeah he perhaps was brave to the point of stupidity,and wasn't a genius when it came to setup,tyre strategy etc.But he raced 100% every second of every race,his car control was amazing (In Formula Atlantic he would literally bounce the car off the walls and gain time doing so) and he represents to me what F1 should be about:I far prefer Gilles to Prost's intelligence or to Senna and Schumi's flawed genius

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blizzard
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Re: Best driver who didnt become champion

Post by blizzard » 17 Jan 2009, 13:32

Thx for your views swca92 and MP4/4#12, some very honest and decent words. I appreciate that. I think that I understand you a fair bit more now that we have exchanged oppinions. Maybe I was discrediting Villeneuve a bit, because of not enough knowledge on him and his situation as a Ferrari driver. My oppinion was based mainly on statistics and the fact that he didn´t beat Jody in 79. But maybe I was a bit too blinkered.

:O
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Re: Best driver who didnt become champion

Post by f1anatic » 17 Jan 2009, 15:08

Massa....ha ha but I voted Sir Stirling Moss.

MP4/4#12
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Re: Best driver who didnt become champion

Post by MP4/4#12 » 17 Jan 2009, 15:16

Glad we helped. Stats dont mean much to me !

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blizzard
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Re: Best driver who didnt become champion

Post by blizzard » 18 Jan 2009, 22:28

off topic: It´s a big shame, that Ayrton Senna didn´t go to Ferrari in 1993, when he wanted to leave McLaren at one stage, when they announced the engine change from Honda V12 to Ford V8 customer engines. Instead he stayed loyal to McLaren and Ferrari re-hired Berger, who is a nice lad, but it would have been fantastic to see Senna at Ferrari together with Alesi.
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swca92
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Re: Best driver who didnt become champion

Post by swca92 » 18 Jan 2009, 22:40

Senna didn't join Ferrari in 1993 because they were rubbish.In 1992 they were the 4th best team,and were in chaos.De Montezemolo had only just got involved and Todt hadn't joined yet,they weren't good enough for Ayrton.

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metalhead188
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Re: Best driver who didnt become champion

Post by metalhead188 » 19 Jan 2009, 00:05

rubbish, a true champion can win in any challenge. thats why moss is the greatest f1 non-champion... he was able to win races in many different cars/teams that makes a winner

MP4/4#12
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Re: Best driver who didnt become champion

Post by MP4/4#12 » 19 Jan 2009, 19:36

metalhead188 wrote:rubbish, a true champion can win in any challenge. thats why moss is the greatest f1 non-champion... he was able to win races in many different cars/teams that makes a winner


Not true ! In modern times it`s not possible; Would Schumacher win a race with a Minardi ? Kimi with a Force India ? No disrespect for Stirling but you can`t compare it.

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metalhead188
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Re: Best driver who didnt become champion

Post by metalhead188 » 19 Jan 2009, 23:29

MP4/4#12 wrote:
metalhead188 wrote:rubbish, a true champion can win in any challenge. thats why moss is the greatest f1 non-champion... he was able to win races in many different cars/teams that makes a winner


Not true ! In modern times it`s not possible; Would Schumacher win a race with a Minardi ? Kimi with a Force India ? No disrespect for Stirling but you can`t compare it.



lets see a decade ago Schumacher left Benetton to join Ferrari. A team at the time that might equal what idk what Williams was last year and rebuilt the team. He could have ran for any team he wanted and could have won even more championships but he didn't and that is why he is truly great. Dont forget what Schumacher did his first race in the Jordan...

in modern times ha they've taken the driver element out of the car compared to the cars that Moss had to drive

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Re: Best driver who didnt become champion

Post by MP4/4#12 » 20 Jan 2009, 14:02

Schumacher didnt do it alone did he ? What about Jean Todt, the designers that came along from Benetton with him, and Ross Brawn; it took them 5 years to win a championship, so there`s my point, in modern days a driver can`t win with any car like in old days, it takes time. I remember what Schumi did in Spa, he qualified 7th (impressive), but he had to move to Benetton to have more chances to be successful or do you think he would built Jordan to be a World Champion Team ?

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Re: Best driver who didnt become champion

Post by Totopupu » 19 Feb 2009, 10:33

JUAN PABLO MONTOYA is the BEST.

Remember Brazil 2001,04,05 for example or Monaco 2003
Jean Todt, Ross Brawn, Rory Byrne, Michael Schumacher = DREAM TEAM

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Re: Best driver who didnt become champion

Post by andilio » 02 Apr 2009, 13:44

Gilles Villeneuve and Juan Pablo Montoya

they are both very similar: very fast, fantastic overtaking skills and car control but unfortunately also very unlucky!

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Re: Best driver who didnt become champion

Post by Fern » 06 Apr 2009, 21:33

dweller23 wrote:Reutemann had his chance in 1981, but he drove REALLY bad at Ceasars Palace... Piquet was beatable there. In 1978 he had few great races (Brands Hatch with great manouver on Lauda..), but Ferrari was nowhere near to Lotus.


The team didn´t want him. So Frank Williams decided to support Jones in the last race. :confused:

I vote for Villeneuve.

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Re: Best driver who didnt become champion

Post by swca92 » 06 Apr 2009, 21:46

In car control Gilles and Montoya don't even come close. Gilles would wipe the floor with him. Montoya had guts and skill but was impetuous and for the teams he drove for a pain in the arse. Nevertheless I far preferred him to anyone else earlier this decade, no one else would or could do what he twice did to Schumi.

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