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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2008, 06:45  
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Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 21:41
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1.Villeneuve
2.Rosberg
3.Hamilton
4.Alonso
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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2008, 18:35  
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hard to say, but luck is a factor at times in any kind of sport. maybe kimi's wdc last year was kinda lucky (my mind says it, but my heart doesn't) - down 17 with 2 races to go, a great come from behind win!

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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2008, 21:41  
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phil1993 wrote:
With Kimi, he definitly deserves one WDC as he was so unlucky in 2003-05. think Europe 03, that cost him the title then. 2005 - retiring from the lead in San Marino and Germany and many engiine failures that left him 12th/13th etc on the grid.



Oh yes, Kimi was so brilliant in 2005. I felt really frustrated back then, when he didn´t win it. I mean he won 8 races with a pretty fragile car, he could have won 11 races or so that year with a reliable car. Absolutely brilliant driving. I think after 2005 he never hit that form again. He was good in 2007, but 2005...oh my god, one of the best season performances by an F1 driver in history I would say. Definetely in the top 5 for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2008, 23:52  
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Well Imola and Hockenheim he lost certain wins due to mechanical faliure.And Montoya gave Alonso some "gimme" points with his mistakes.Kimi deserves a championship,his performances over the years have merited it.Yet Alonso drove superbly in 2005,picking up points whenever possible,and I have no problem with him winning the title that year.I think Hakkinen in 99 was pretty lucky,he had lots of retirements,had his main rival break his leg,and Irvine lacked the sheer pace to trouble him in almost every race.
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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2009, 08:20  
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Alonso in 2005 ( because Raikkonen was better ) and and in 2006 ( Schumacher was better )

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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2009, 08:22  
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Villeneuve in 1997 - he should have walked that championship with the dominance of the car.
Also i think Hakkinen (although I like him very much) in 1999 as he made many errors and had Schumi's broken leg to thank

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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2009, 09:13  
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phil1993 wrote:
Villeneuve in 1997 - he should have walked that championship with the dominance of the car.
Also i think Hakkinen (although I like him very much) in 1999 as he made many errors and had Schumi's broken leg to thank


In 1999, Hakkinen made two or three mistakes during the season: Imola, Monza and maybe Magny-Cours, but don't forget that he also had three technical failures, and somebody, who has three technical failures three times and who was in a winning position every time, I wouldn't call lucky.
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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2009, 09:22  
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Totopupu wrote:
Alonso in 2005 ( because Raikkonen was better ) and in 2006 ( Schumacher was better )


Why was Schumacher better in 2006? For the first half of the season, Renault had the better car and for the other one it was Ferrari and Alonso walked away with 13 points advantage at the end of the season. So Alonso made more out of the material he had.

In my eyes, the luckiest champion ever should be Nelson Piquet in 1987. Mansell was clearly better that season and was only stopped by his injury in the last two races.

And apart from that, from my point of view Rosberg wasn't so lucky to win his championship because he had some very good drives and he also had technical problems. Of course, without the injury of Pironi Rosberg would not have been able to snatch the title, but it's the way it is.

All in all, I also think that every F1 world champion is a deserved one.
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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2009, 09:29  
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I think so too,but I started this thread because some champions got more luck than others.I'm still amazed how lucky Jacques Villeneuve was in 97,I think he used up all his good luck in 97 and had little left for the rest of his career.Apart from a couple of races in 01 he had shocking luck (and judgement) after 97.Rosberg benefitted from Pironi and Gilles having their tragic accidents, and Hakkinen benefitted from Schumi breaking his leg.
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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2009, 09:47  
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Why was Schumacher better in 2006?


Just remenber Suzuka, China and Brazil 2006

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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2009, 09:52  
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It's hard to win without luck. You always have to benefit from something, either a superb car or another driver having problems etc. Anyway I think that most of the champions have deserved their title as they've shown extraordinary talent compared to the rest of the drivers that season.

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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2009, 10:25  
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Totopupu wrote:
Quote:
Why was Schumacher better in 2006?


Just remenber Suzuka, China and Brazil 2006


Australia, Spain, Canada, Britain, Monaco

Alonso was supreme there...

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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2009, 14:10  
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Hey it´s pointless to compare single races :)

Alonso deserved his championships both. He´s an extraordinary driver, one of the 10 best of all time.

Rosberg on the other really only won it, because somebody else died and the other one got his legs smashed into pieces. I think we can call that a lucky champion. He drove a good season, yes but without Villeneuve and Pironi out, he would not have had any chance. Pironi´s lead over him before Hockenheim was very solid.

And Villenuve is 2nd for me in that list, lost to a good but not all time great driver in 96 (D.Hill) and won it in 97 because of a very good car and his teammate Frentzen was cracking up, even before the season had started :)

3rd is Hamilton, not because he isn´t worth it, or doesn´t have the talent, NO:
It´s because he came into F1 straight in the best car, like Villeneuve and without Ferrari´s inability in 2008 Massa would have been champion.

And Massa would have been my number 3 than instead of Hamilton, because Massa only had a shot at the title, because he was in a top car and the best driver on the planet at the moment (Alonso) sat in a midfield car and his teammate Räikkönen had a dismal year.

In terms of talent Massa is probably 10th in the current field of 20.

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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2009, 14:27  
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1. Alonso
2. Hamilton - Vettel
4. Kubica - Räikkönen
6. Rosberg - Button - Fisichella - Heidfeld
10. Barrichello - Trulli - Massa
13. Webber - Kovalainen - Glock - Sutil - Buemi
18. Bourdais
19. Nakajima - Piquet

That´s my list of current F1 drivers listed by talent. Not current class or form, just pure talent. Fisichella is pretty high up there, because he looked like a real gem back in 97, 98 getting quite a few podiums in the Jordan and Benetton, often in atrocious weather. Nakajima and Piquet are at the back, they don´t belong into F1 for me. Alonso is top, because they way he won his 2005 championship was really really special, and he was still a very young bloke.

And people seperated by - are on the same level, so e.g. Kubica - Räikkönen, I rate them equally talented, maybe with 1% difference, but that´s irrelevant. So all people written in a line seperated by a hyphon are basically equally talented.

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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2009, 15:08  
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Quote:
Australia, Spain, Canada, Britain, Monaco

Alonso was supreme there...


Australia --- The Ferrari wasn't good
Monaco --- Schumacher must win this race without the wrong FIA decision

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