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 Post subject: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2008, 22:23  
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The thread about Schumi in the 1994 and a few of the comments about Damon Hill gave me the idea of this thread,of who is the luckiest champion.I thought of naming the thread "Worst ever champion" but that would be harsh and misleading,as there are no bad drivers who are champions,just some mediocre ones.I say luckiest champion,and probably least deserving is Jacques Villeneuve.Of the 7 races he won,6 had a good deal of luck in them.In Brazil,he went off 1st corner and was midfield,when they red flagged the race when Rubens stalled.He was very lucky they threw a red flag.In Argentina,Schumi had an accident 1st corner,Panis retired in 2nd when he was for a cofortable win and the 2 Jordans could have won had they not collided.In Britain Schumi and Hakkinen retired when ahead of him,handing him victory.In Hungary,Frentzen,Hakkinen and Hill all would have finished ahead of him without mechanical problems.In Austria,Hakkinen led 1st lap and wold have won easily but his engine blew.Nurburgring,the 2 McLaren's famously blew their engines while leading.And he pissed off mechanics cos he was such an not a very nice person.Keke Rosberg won in 1982 in tragic circumstances (Pironi and Gilles would almost certainly beat him without their tragic accidents).And Hill,a good but not great driver,won in 1996 but made hard work of it against a rookie teammate and opposition with cars half a second slower than his.But what do you guys think?????????
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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2008, 23:30  
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1. Villeneuve
2. Hill
3. Massive debate..

I think Hamilton's championship was less than solid; even autosport (who usually rate the champ in first) didn't this year in their season rankings. But then there are many more champions who had suspect seasons, or who just played the consistency game, and so I think Hamilton probably figures lower down on the list than a lot of others. Piquet, for one. He won it by stealth and luck, which is exactly why I like him, although he did have b*** and pace when the situation called for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2008, 09:10  
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luckiest champion ever - hamilton, schumacher 94 (should have been stripped of his championship), or in a way rosberg 82 but althought he was lucky he fought for it - that season was special and rosberg although got some luck he made his own luck and stole the championship form under everyone noses =)
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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2008, 09:27  
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I don't see anything lucky in Villeneuve's and (especially) Hill's WDCs. They had superior car that's one. Other thing is that Hill was close to WDC both in 1993 and 1994. To be honest if not pitcrew and losing it at both Silverstone and Hockenheim while leading comfortably due to mechanical failure he would've won it.

For me the luckiest WDCs are 86 Prost and 87 Piquet. Piquet's WDC was really won only thanks to reliability. Mansell was doing whatever he wanted with Piquet throughout the season, but had a lot of bad luck. Wheelnut comming off in closing stages of Hungarian GP costed him 1 win. Turbo blow up at Monaco costed him another one. Same with 1986 Prost. Before the last race he was rather an outsider, but terrible luck of Mansell and, as a consequence, pitstop of Piquet gave WDC to Prost (a bit like with Raikkonen's 07 one, another lucky WDC).
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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2008, 11:16  
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no way i disagree - 87 piquet won the title deservedly with consistent drives throughout the season and undermining mansell to make him perform worse and then took the title from under his nose - that is skill not luck + for 86 prost took the title because of the in house williams fighting he capitalised on their sharing of points and took the championship with steady consistent drives - similar to 07 yes but both were not lucky

=)
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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2008, 17:10  
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dweller23 wrote:
I don't see anything lucky in Villeneuve's and (especially) Hill's WDCs. They had superior car that's one. Other thing is that Hill was close to WDC both in 1993 and 1994. To be honest if not pitcrew and losing it at both Silverstone and Hockenheim while leading comfortably due to mechanical failure he would've won it.

For me the luckiest WDCs are 86 Prost and 87 Piquet. Piquet's WDC was really won only thanks to reliability. Mansell was doing whatever he wanted with Piquet throughout the season, but had a lot of bad luck. Wheelnut comming off in closing stages of Hungarian GP costed him 1 win. Turbo blow up at Monaco costed him another one. Same with 1986 Prost. Before the last race he was rather an outsider, but terrible luck of Mansell and, as a consequence, pitstop of Piquet gave WDC to Prost (a bit like with Raikkonen's 07 one, another lucky WDC).


I disagree on both points to be honest.Villeneuve was bloody lucky,while Hill did the best job in the best car,though he did have some shocking races (Monza,Spain,Spa).Also Prost and Piquet I don't think were lucky,especially Prost.Prost was in a much slower McLaren and was in some races a lap slower than the Williams.But he got every point he could,didn't make mistakes,hung in there and snatched it at the final race.And he was unlucky,at Spa he was in a 1st corner crash,broke his front wing and damaged the suspension,got a new front wing,had to apply a third more extra steering lock and did a fastest lap 2 seconds faster than anyone else.At Monza he was DQ'd for doing what the marshals told him to do.

Piquet drove consistently,wound up Mansell knowing he was a complicated character and often a pain in the arse,and won the title despite having side effects from a massive crash at Imola.Piquet got the best car,but still easily beat Mansell to the title.
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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2008, 00:51  
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Dare I say Senna in 1988? Well I said it anyway! Prost scored more points than Senna, but Senna won because he won more races, Prost dropped a lot of points which didn't count towards his score. Obviously Senna wasn't lucky in the respect that he won the most races, but Prost did score more points and it was the result of this championship which saw the scoring system change to allow all races to count towards the championship. Arguably Senna could be just a 'mere' (I use the word tongue in cheek) double world champion, with Prost the driver to equal Fangio with 5 titles.

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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2008, 16:07  
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It´s funny, how oppinions go into different directions, in the Schumi 94 thread, everybody agreed that he drove very fine that year. Here people say his 94 championship was one of the luckiest ever.

For me it´s like this:

1. Rosberg (1 win, Gilles dead, Pironi nearly dead, Renault= too unreliable)
2. Villeneuve, lucky to get away with a last second championship, in a car that was probably twice the car the F310B was. Did a much better job than Frentzen did though, sometimes struggling to beat Eddie Irvine (Buenos Aires just and Magny-Cours failed to do so). In the end he took profit from Schumi losing his nerves (again).
3. Prost 86 (Great driver, but this was Nigel´s championship)
Hamilton 08, I know a lot of you won´t like this, but it´s not because I want to miscredit Lewis performances, but just for the pure nature he won the championship, that last corner - Glock incident, a championship has never been closer, so it could have gone either way. Both Massa and Hamilton could only win it by luck in the end.
4. Kimi Räikkönen, before China Lewis was champion, after Brazil he wasn´t.

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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2008, 10:35  
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TheViewer wrote:
Dare I say Senna in 1988? Well I said it anyway! Prost scored more points than Senna, but Senna won because he won more races, Prost dropped a lot of points which didn't count towards his score. Obviously Senna wasn't lucky in the respect that he won the most races, but Prost did score more points and it was the result of this championship which saw the scoring system change to allow all races to count towards the championship. Arguably Senna could be just a 'mere' (I use the word tongue in cheek) double world champion, with Prost the driver to equal Fangio with 5 titles.


With all the respect, but that`s RUBBISH.......

I agree the points system sucked at the time, but the drivers "managed" their races through out the year because of that.....
If Balestre havent stealed one title from Senna in 89.....
If Senna joined Williams sooner.......
If Senna didnt died......
If...If.....
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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2008, 10:36  
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1. Villeneuve
2. Hill
3. Rosberg

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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2008, 10:41  
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Luckiest ever: Alain Prost in 86, just watch that Australian gp, enough said.

Lauda: 84, half a point, if they didnt stop the Monaco gp, maybe Senna would have won it (?) Prost would finish 2nd having 6 points instead of 4,5 of that win, lost a title because of it.
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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2008, 15:28  
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1. Rosberg
2. Villeneuve
3. Hill

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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2008, 03:46  
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I'd say Rosberg, too. He got his spot at Williams only because Jones retired. Then he became team #1 when Reutemann retired after two races. The Renaults were quicker, but fragile, and Pironi really should have been champion on merit, never mind Villeneuve. Keke threw away wins at Belgium and Detroit by overdriving, barely managed to win his first GP on the next to last lap at Dijon, etc. I'm not saying he didn't deserve it, but he was pretty lucky by circumstance just to be in the position to do it.
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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2008, 06:02  
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Kimmi as before race no one thought that he would win the wdc its just luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Luckiest ever champion
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2008, 09:03  
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With Kimi, he definitly deserves one WDC as he was so unlucky in 2003-05. think Europe 03, that cost him the title then. 2005 - retiring from the lead in San Marino and Germany and many engiine failures that left him 12th/13th etc on the grid.

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