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 Post subject: Barrichello would have been fired
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2008, 11:31  
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Barrichello would have been fired, if not gone of the throttle...
http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2008/11/ ... am-orders/
I already knew Ferrari is not the most honoust and fair team, so this is not really a surprise for me. But the big question is of course.. True? False? But Rubens says he has documents with prove, so.. I say true. Your thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Barrichello would have been fired
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2008, 12:13  
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Rubens is making Ferrari look like the Mafia.I can't believe he'd do this,you don't hear Irvine complaining about his years at Ferrari.I see this as little more than sour grapes by Rubens,who knows his time at F1 could well be up.And also he's harming his own prospects at Honda,as Ross Brawn won't like this one single bit.Rubens stop harming yourself in public,I thought you were a nice guy.
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 Post subject: Re: Barrichello would have been fired
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2008, 12:15  
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Might be true, but please don´t start to blame Michael for that. Luca di Montezemolo, Jean Todt and Ross Brawn managed the team. It´s bad behaviour by Ferrari anyway, because the few times Rubens was able to win, they should have let him. Over the course of a whole season Michael outclassed him one way or the other. During a 18 race season, Rubens had probably 2 or 3 where he was on Michael´s level, the other ones were just mediocre.


So understandable from Michael´s and di Montezemo´s point of view, but emberrassing for Ferrari, to slow a weaker driver artificially down, in order to let the first dribver win 11 instead of 9 or 10 races a season.

But you know, Rubens eraned a shitload of money for that, so no reason to mourn Rubens! He should be grateful, that he never really had to fight with Michael, he would have destroyed the little Brazilian, on and off track. Rubens was always too soft, he left Jordan, because Eddie Irvine destroyed his self-belief and the mechanics didn´t trust Rubens anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Barrichello would have been fired
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2008, 14:24  
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Even if its true; i deny to accept it simply because he didn't had b*** & self respect to speak during that moment ..he simply choose money over his self believed talent .... i have nothing to add about Ruben!

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 Post subject: Re: Barrichello would have been fired
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2008, 14:39  
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Massive sour grapes. Mediocre driver finds nice car, has less than five really good races in 6 seasons, pasted by team-mate, needs reason to complain. You don't hear Fisi complaining about Alonso's 2005 and 2006 seasons.

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 Post subject: Re: Barrichello would have been fired
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2008, 18:01  
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@TA: Probably because Renault are a better team than Ferrari in the way they don't bully the drivers into team orders


Who gives a s*** whether he says it now or in 2002? Its very easy for the armchair experts to say he didn't have the b*** but I highly doubt anyone else here would say at the time if they were him.
I don't have a problem with Barrichello saying the truth. The fact is Ferrari bullied one of their drivers and however good you may think Barrichello is, is not the point and it doesn't change anything, they still did it. Austria 2002, correct if i'm wrong was the 6th race of the season and Ferrari would of probably known they were going to blitz the championship and 2 points wouldnt of mattered.
I'd rather know what happened than it being buried up.

And for the record Alonso has said in F1 Racing mag that one day also he will reveal what really happened at McLaren so that isn't much different really from what Rubens is doing.
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 Post subject: Re: Barrichello would have been fired
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2008, 18:17  
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Well if Barrichello is telling the truth and Ferrari were this mafia-like,machiavellian organisation that bullied poor Rubens into submission,why didn't he leave Ferrari earlier? Even though Ferrari were dominant if they were that bad why didn't he leave? Why didn't he say these things about Ferrari earlier? How come you don't hear Schumi's other teammates complaining? The only teammate who did complain was Herbert and he had a right to do so. (Schumi hid all setup data from him all season after qualifying or the first GP of the season).If Barrichello didn't say this before,he's a coward.Saying it now is sour grapes.
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 Post subject: Re: Barrichello would have been fired
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2008, 18:20  
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too bad for rubens....he simply wanted to drive, to race, and to win. but in a sense, team orders that favor a certain driver would be good for the team's title challenge most esp. when the other teams are competitive. look at last year @ mclaren and this year with ferrari. but having said that, rubens would have never beaten michael for a wdc is given a fair chance......(just my opinion, though)

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 Post subject: Re: Barrichello would have been fired
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2008, 18:58  
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swca92 wrote:
Well if Barrichello is telling the truth and Ferrari were this mafia-like,machiavellian organisation that bullied poor Rubens into submission,why didn't he leave Ferrari earlier? Even though Ferrari were dominant if they were that bad why didn't he leave? Why didn't he say these things about Ferrari earlier? How come you don't hear Schumi's other teammates complaining? The only teammate who did complain was Herbert and he had a right to do so. (Schumi hid all setup data from him all season after qualifying or the first GP of the season).If Barrichello didn't say this before,he's a coward.Saying it now is sour grapes.

Ok and you risk everything for complaining at the time? I'm quite sure Ferrari could do plenty of stuff to screw him over.
I also never said Ferrari are the mafia which are your words not mine.
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 Post subject: Re: Barrichello would have been fired
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2008, 19:03  
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Fergie1 wrote:
@TA: Probably because Renault are a better team than Ferrari in the way they don't bully the drivers into team orders


Who gives a s*** whether he says it now or in 2002? Its very easy for the armchair experts to say he didn't have the b*** but I highly doubt anyone else here would say at the time if they were him.
I don't have a problem with Barrichello saying the truth. The fact is Ferrari bullied one of their drivers and however good you may think Barrichello is, is not the point and it doesn't change anything, they still did it. Austria 2002, correct if i'm wrong was the 6th race of the season and Ferrari would of probably known they were going to blitz the championship and 2 points wouldnt of mattered.
I'd rather know what happened than it being buried up.

And for the record Alonso has said in F1 Racing mag that one day also he will reveal what really happened at McLaren so that isn't much different really from what Rubens is doing.


Observation 1: You're a Mac fan. Therefore, you're bound to jump on anything Ferrari-detrimenting.

Observation 2: There is still the issue that Barrichello "was bullied" into doing it. I don't think there would have been an issue within given how much Michael was leading by in the championship already. Maybe nothing would have been made of it. Maybe a bit of an internal investigation would have been called, maybe Rubens would have been fired, but you can't be sure: Ferrari does not automatically = evil. I don't mind hearing what "happened", but my above post is the reason why I will be taking what Rubens says with more than a pinch of salt. Frankly, I think his dignity was harmed more by Michael's driving than by things that may or may not have happened.

As for Alonso, do you see me shouting "unfair treatment"? Well, no, not really, I didn't like Alonso being there anyway, and this is different. Ham only matched, but didn't beat him, and didn't trounce him like Schumi did to Rubens. Therefore Alonso's dignity is still pretty much intact, while Barrichello obviously feels he needs to step out of the shadows somehow. Alonso's distorted view is that Mac favoured Lewis. It's not as if I believe that everything Alonso says/does/believes is right, like some fans I could mention..

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 Post subject: Re: Barrichello would have been fired
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2008, 19:55  
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TwistedArmco wrote:
Fergie1 wrote:
@TA: Probably because Renault are a better team than Ferrari in the way they don't bully the drivers into team orders


Who gives a s*** whether he says it now or in 2002? Its very easy for the armchair experts to say he didn't have the b*** but I highly doubt anyone else here would say at the time if they were him.
I don't have a problem with Barrichello saying the truth. The fact is Ferrari bullied one of their drivers and however good you may think Barrichello is, is not the point and it doesn't change anything, they still did it. Austria 2002, correct if i'm wrong was the 6th race of the season and Ferrari would of probably known they were going to blitz the championship and 2 points wouldnt of mattered.
I'd rather know what happened than it being buried up.

And for the record Alonso has said in F1 Racing mag that one day also he will reveal what really happened at McLaren so that isn't much different really from what Rubens is doing.


Observation 1: You're a Mac fan. Therefore, you're bound to jump on anything Ferrari-detrimenting.

Observation 2: There is still the issue that Barrichello "was bullied" into doing it. I don't think there would have been an issue within given how much Michael was leading by in the championship already. Maybe nothing would have been made of it. Maybe a bit of an internal investigation would have been called, maybe Rubens would have been fired, but you can't be sure: Ferrari does not automatically = evil. I don't mind hearing what "happened", but my above post is the reason why I will be taking what Rubens says with more than a pinch of salt. Frankly, I think his dignity was harmed more by Michael's driving than by things that may or may not have happened.

As for Alonso, do you see me shouting "unfair treatment"? Well, no, not really, I didn't like Alonso being there anyway, and this is different. Ham only matched, but didn't beat him, and didn't trounce him like Schumi did to Rubens. Therefore Alonso's dignity is still pretty much intact, while Barrichello obviously feels he needs to step out of the shadows somehow.(1) Alonso's distorted view is that Mac favoured Lewis. It's not as if I believe that everything Alonso says/does/believes is right, like some fans I could mention..(2)

1. I agree with that as he wasn't great and there is abit of sour grapes but threats from his team won't of helped things.
2. I assume thats directed at McLaren fans and I can tell you I also don't think everything Hamilton says/does whatever is right either.

And also whatever team I support has nothing to do with my opinion (yes really) as this was before I watched F1 but its still a dirty thing to do. And no I don't see you shouting unfair treatment but I never said you did either. I added my last bit in about Alonso in my first post as it wasn't a dig at him as I said I like to know what really went on.
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 Post subject: Re: Barrichello would have been fired
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2008, 20:12  
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I don't understand what's the big deal here. Team orders were allowed and used at the time and naturally if a driver refuses to obey his team, they can fire him. The ones that have watched F1 before have seen team orders more or less, it was just the Austria GP in 2002 that angered the public as Barrichello let Schumi past only at the last moment and it didn't turn out to be such a pleasant event for the viewers then.

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 Post subject: Re: Barrichello would have been fired
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2008, 21:51  
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Fergie1 wrote:
1. I agree with that as he wasn't great and there is abit of sour grapes but threats from his team won't of helped things.
2. I assume thats directed at McLaren fans and I can tell you I also don't think everything Hamilton says/does whatever is right either.

And also whatever team I support has nothing to do with my opinion (yes really) as this was before I watched F1 but its still a dirty thing to do. And no I don't see you shouting unfair treatment but I never said you did either. I added my last bit in about Alonso in my first post as it wasn't a dig at him as I said I like to know what really went on.


Well we're all fine then. :)

Barrichello is allowed to try and get some limelight while he still can I guess.. With Alonso, I don't mind not knowing exactly what went on, because chances are, it's not much different from what we already know, and if it isn't it doesn't change much, but doesn't really add to the interest of this season. It's kinda stale news now. F1 moves on quickly, and things only start becoming fashionable again about a decade on when all parties are gone (to me anyway, which is why I love the 80s in F1 so much). The same with Rubens' "revelations". All press is good press, especially if you think it restores your dignity, which I can assure you Rube, this doesn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Barrichello would have been fired
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2008, 12:06  
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Well, to sum it up short and simple:

1. It was unfair to Rubens, to slow him down the few times he was better positioned in a race than Michael, but....

2. ...it doesn´t really matter, because Michael outclassed him so badly, that it didn´t make any difference from a statistical point of view.

3. From a retrospective kind of view, it may have even protected him from cracking psychologically, because Rubens is not the typ of guy who could stand a championship battle against MSC.


So Rubens is either overconfident and really thinks, he could have beaten Michael over a complete season, or his chancelessness against MSC shocked him so much, that he needs to find an excuse for himself to live with the whole situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Barrichello would have been fired
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2008, 11:30  
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It might be true but i dont care because Michael was fastest then him and he was not even a second close to him

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