2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

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Re: 2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

Post by Zack » 16 Mar 2009, 17:35

Lewis did that time on 3 lap stint ....
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Re: 2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

Post by megasyxx » 16 Mar 2009, 17:45

that's the way mclaren is - when they get it right, they win races and championships. when they don't get it right, they s*ck-at best, they win a race or two.
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Re: 2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

Post by JoostLamers » 16 Mar 2009, 17:48

megasyxx wrote:that's the way mclaren is - when they get it right, they win races and championships. when they don't get it right, they s*ck-at best, they win a race or two.

just like other top teams in the past: McLaren 04, Ferrari 05, McLaren 06, Renault 07/08
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Re: 2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

Post by JoostLamers » 16 Mar 2009, 17:57

Mark Hughes on McLarens problems:
Spoiler:
Last week’s Barcelona test, and the subsequent comments from the team’s high command, confirmed that McLaren is in a surprising state of disarray on the eve of the new season.

Far from being the immaculate conception that many hailed it as at its launch in January, the MP4-24 appears to be suffering from a serious case of ‘new car blues’ – lacking downforce and leaving its frustrated drivers mired near the bottom of the timesheets.

ITV.com/f1 columnist Mark Hughes analyses what has gone wrong for the Woking team, and suggests the problem – once pinpointed – may prove straightforward to rectify. In the meantime, McLaren faces a potentially humiliating start to its 2009 campaign…


McLaren-Mercedes’ own assessment was pretty plain: car not quick enough, not enough downforce, according to Martin Whitmarsh and Norbert Haug respectively.

Given that the MP4-24 was testing at Barcelona last week covered in fluorescene, a fluorescent dye to show what the airflow was actually doing, they could hardly claim anything else.

They are officially in trouble.

The lack of downforce is manifest at the rear but the problem may not originate there – hence the effort to trace exactly what the airflow is doing and where it is differing from what the simulations show.

It’s much more likely to be a question of identifying the source of the problem than an inherent flaw in the car’s basic design and as such it is probably a problem that can be switched off relatively easily – but only once it’s been identified.

Airflow is notoriously prone to separation, whereby the flow breaks off into separate paths over a critical component and thereby does not produce the expected downforce on that component.

Computational fluid dynamics (CFD) is capable of predicting this, but not with 100% reliability.

If the problem area is sufficiently intricate, there may not be enough computing power to model it accurately.

Almost certainly, there is a small part of the car’s surface – maybe around the sidepods, the guide vanes or the diffuser – that is creating a detachment in the airflow which in turn is compromising the flow over critical downforce-producing components downstream.

Starved of flow, these components are effectively switched off even if though there may be nothing wrong with their design in isolation.

As part of its investigation McLaren was looking into whether the rear wing itself was a problem or whether the problem was just manifesting itself there – hence the switching back and forth from the 2009 wing to the known quantity of the ’08 wing.

The car still being slow with the ’08 wing – a component known to work – will have confirmed that the likely problem was upstream of the wing itself.

Nailing where that critical separation is taking place is how the McLaren’s problems will be resolved.

The quality of design simulation tools today means it’s much less likely to be an inherent flaw in the car’s concept.


Given how radically different the 2009 aero regs are, it’s perhaps not surprising in hindsight that at least one team has been caught out by the uncharted territory.

A new floor with a much more open section around the rear wheels was introduced on the car the previous week, again pointing to the team trying to generate more rear downforce – in this case by inducing a low-pressure area ahead of the rear wheels which should cause the diffuser to pull it through with greater force, increasing the speed of flow through the diffuser.

The team is continuing to test further solutions in Jerez this week in a last-ditch attempt to nail the problem before flying out to Melbourne.

On Barcelona form the McLaren appeared to be around two seconds off the pace – which would give Lewis Hamilton and Heikki Kovalainen a major problem in just graduating into Q2 in Australia.

The Force Indias may be around the same pace and the unpreparedness of the Toro Rossos because of the late completion of their cars may also limit them.

Those two aside, every other team looked comfortably faster than McLaren last week.

Unless some breakthrough is made in Jerez, they look set for a torrid time in the opening flyaway races.

Expect to see them running extensively in the Friday sessions, which, once the season has begun, is the only testing available to them.

The instant stunning pace of the Brawn BGP 001 has merely served to underline McLaren’s difficulty and the limit on testing may serve to delay a solution.

But it would be staggering if the car’s problem wasn’t identified and cured before the season was very old.

McLaren is just too good, too well resourced, to have come up with a car that really is as bad as it has looked in testing so far.
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My only hope for a reasable Oz GP is the last sentence :confused:
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Re: 2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

Post by pacocopan » 16 Mar 2009, 18:38

megasyxx wrote:Circuito Permanente de Jerez - Spain 16 March 2009
Pos. Driver Team Tyres Time Laps
1 F. Alonso Renault Bridgestone 01:18.343 99
2 R. Barrichello Brawn GP Bridgestone 01:18.398 62
3 J. Button Brawn GP Bridgestone 01:18.892 12
4 L. Hamilton McLaren Bridgestone 01:19.513 85
5 N. Rosberg Williams Bridgestone 01:19.783 123


It means that Renault is the quickest. Or not?

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Re: 2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

Post by phil1993 » 16 Mar 2009, 18:40

Testing is inconclusive. They set the fastest time today but that gives little indication as to how good they are; but what we do know is McLaren are slow.

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Re: 2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

Post by megasyxx » 16 Mar 2009, 18:41

they're p1 in the last test, so they quickest. but overall though, i think it's brawn mercedes
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Re: 2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

Post by megasyxx » 16 Mar 2009, 18:47

joostlamers wrote:McLaren is just too good, too well resourced, to have come up with a car that really is as bad as it has looked in testing so far: My only hope for a reasable Oz GP is the last sentence :confused:


don't lose hope or feel down.....the first race ain't the end of the world. who knows? mclaren might get a ton of luck in most of the races this year and will eventually win the drivers/team championships.

or if they eventually end up with a poor season, there's always next year and the following years.
Last edited by megasyxx on 16 Mar 2009, 20:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

Post by AzShadow » 16 Mar 2009, 20:17

We'll see. IIRC in 2006 Honda was pretty impressive during winter tests as well but still Ferrari & Renault were ahead when the races started. Honda had a good car at the first races and Button got a pole position in some GP too, but then they just fell behind and couldn't keep up with the development pace of the others. That could very well happen again unless with Brawn leading they're really going to fight for the title.
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Re: 2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

Post by swca92 » 16 Mar 2009, 21:30

McLaren fans-Remember the first half of 2004? That awaits you my friends.

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Re: 2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

Post by iceman1 » 16 Mar 2009, 21:52

It seems the hot weather is helping the teams gain further insight into the behaviour of their cars .

FA
I’m happy with the day as we did more than a 100 laps which was our target for my final day of winter testing. This has been the first time we have run on a really hot track and the information we have from today will be very useful for the first few races, which are usually very hot.

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Re: 2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

Post by Powerslave » 16 Mar 2009, 22:05

joostlamers wrote:
megasyxx wrote:that's the way mclaren is - when they get it right, they win races and championships. when they don't get it right, they s*ck-at best, they win a race or two.

just like other top teams in the past: McLaren 04, Ferrari 05, McLaren 06, Renault 07/08


Considering that finishing in the 5th or lower place at the end of a season is a bad result for a top team like McM, Williams, Ferrari.. here's what I've concluded:

Only 5 times have had Ferrari finished a season in 5th or lower place (in the constructor's wc), in their 60 year old history.
Where McLaren in their 43 year old history have done it 9 times.
Williams in 30 years - 7 times.
As for Renault, in their 15 year old history (1978-1985; 2002-2008) have done it 4 times.

So, in my opinion, the statement od megasyxx, may be (and it is) valid for McLaren, Williams or Renault for that matter, but not for Ferrari like joostlamers says! :zz: :O
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Re: 2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

Post by megasyxx » 17 Mar 2009, 01:35

swca92 wrote:McLaren fans-Remember the first half of 2004? That awaits you my friends.


megasyxx wrote:i guess they were too aggressive in the design of the mp4-24, will we see another 2004-like season for the mclaren team?


phil1993 wrote:Maybe worse....


exactly...... :O
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Re: 2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

Post by kimi and mika » 17 Mar 2009, 20:24

alex1369 wrote:yes it is getting smaller, but we really have to wait till melbourne in Q2

Well It might be Q3 if McLaren arn't quick enough. I'm sure they'll sort in out, but this isn't a title winning year for them...it's not going to be close.
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Re: 2009 Winter & Mid-season testing (Results and Pictures)

Post by JoostLamers » 17 Mar 2009, 21:32

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Jenson Button Brawn GP 1:17.844 114
2. Nico Rosberg Williams 1:18.071 66
3. Nelson Piquet Renault 1:18.382 133
4. Lewis Hamilton McLaren Mercedes 1:19.121 121
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