Is Hamilton a great Champion? is massa a good second?

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AzShadow
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Re: Is Hamilton a great Championship? is massa a good second?

Post by AzShadow » 04 Nov 2008, 06:03

In the past season many were saying how last year McLaren lost the championship and Ferrari didn't win it so it's pretty much the same, now the roles are just reversed.

As I see it, Massa was the fastest guy this season. But being fastest isn't enough. It was like 2005 when only reliability problems could hinder Kimi's chances and now it was same with Massa. When you look at the season you'll notice that Hamilton still hasn't had to retire because of technical problems while Ferrari had plenty of them. Hamilton just got himself penalties by driving unrationally and breaking rules all the time. All of the leading drivers made mistakes, but if Massa had had as many technical & team failures as Hamilton, ie zero, he'd have at least 8 wins from this season and he would have been totally superior.

Of course the one who's leading the standings after the final race is the champion in the end and deserves it, no matter what we want to think about it.
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Re: Is Hamilton a great Championship? is massa a good second?

Post by petermrry » 04 Nov 2008, 06:21

I have got back into F1 again after a 15 year break ( living in the US makes the race times tough ) and have to say I was rooting for Lewis Hamilton all season - being a Brit I had to. However, I have to admit feeling for Massa thinking he had won and then having it taken away so quickly. Then showing what a good sportsman and gentleman he was by congratulating Lewis at the press conference while on the verge of tears makes you really appreciate the character of all the racers - winners and losers. It makes you wish that the rest of our sports heros were F1 and less soccer / NFL / NBA riff-raff

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Re: Is Hamilton a great Championship? is massa a good second?

Post by Zack » 04 Nov 2008, 08:16

AzShadow wrote:In the past season many were saying how last year McLaren lost the championship and Ferrari didn't win it so it's pretty much the same, now the roles are just reversed.

As I see it, Massa was the fastest guy this season. But being fastest isn't enough. It was like 2005 when only reliability problems could hinder Kimi's chances and now it was same with Massa. When you look at the season you'll notice that Hamilton still hasn't had to retire because of technical problems while Ferrari had plenty of them. Hamilton just got himself penalties by driving unrationally and breaking rules all the time. All of the leading drivers made mistakes, but if Massa had had as many technical & team failures as Hamilton, ie zero, he'd have at least 8 wins from this season and he would have been totally superior.

Of course the one who's leading the standings after the final race is the champion in the end and deserves it, no matter what we want to think about it.

^^^I know this will sound insane :p , Unreliability is Teams fault!.Only Ferrari & Renault had DNF caused by MES SECU ..that means something both the team failed to get it right atm.
In context to WDC Race,Mclaren were better ..they had single channeled focus from beginning ..its undeniable fact that helps.

To me Hamilton is deserved Champion.Greatness is arguable :n
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Re: Is Hamilton a great Champion? is massa a good second?

Post by zycker » 04 Nov 2008, 09:50

Hamilton got the title, but he can't handle stress at all. He screwed up completely in the last lap, got overtaken by Vettel, and was lucky that Glock was not competitive in the last turn. He is of course an incredible driver, yet he has to learn how to manage pressure. In my opinion, he was too passive during the final...

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Re: Is Hamilton a great Champion? is massa a good second?

Post by JoostLamers » 04 Nov 2008, 13:34

zycker wrote:Hamilton got the title, but he can't handle stress at all. He screwed up completely in the last lap, got overtaken by Vettel, and was lucky that Glock was not competitive in the last turn. He is of course an incredible driver, yet he has to learn how to manage pressure. In my opinion, he was too passive during the final...

Dude, come on, if Glock would have made a pitstop, he would have been behind Hamilton anyway, bu he didn't made a pitstop, plus the rain came down harder on the last lap, so he was overtaken.
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Re: Is Hamilton a great Champion? is massa a good second?

Post by TrapCakeNL » 04 Nov 2008, 14:33

Yeh it could have been both ways. but if it stopped raining or less hard Hamilton couldnt win the WDC.
Im just glad it rained hard enough to overtake vettel :D
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Re: Is Hamilton a great Champion? is massa a good second?

Post by jayb7 » 04 Nov 2008, 16:03

lewis was the best driver last year but did not win but was not as good this year but did win.
so he has done it the wrong way around but he is only in his 2nd year and just remember what massa was like
in his 1st year in F1. a poor man sato.

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Re: Is Hamilton a great Champion? is massa a good second?

Post by megasyxx » 04 Nov 2008, 16:21

TrapCakeNL wrote:Yeh it could have been both ways. but if it stopped raining or less hard Hamilton couldnt win the WDC.
Im just glad it rained hard enough to overtake vettel :D


...to overtake vettel? maybe glock is what you meant? :O
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Re: Is Hamilton a great Champion? is massa a good second?

Post by TrapCakeNL » 04 Nov 2008, 17:55

Yeh Vettel i ment sry.

And Massa didnt came in F1 with an topteam.
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Re: Is Hamilton a great Championship? is massa a good second?

Post by AzShadow » 04 Nov 2008, 18:51

Zack wrote:^^^I know this will sound insane :p , Unreliability is Teams fault!.Only Ferrari & Renault had DNF caused by MES SECU ..that means something both the team failed to get it right atm.
In context to WDC Race,Mclaren were better ..they had single channeled focus from beginning ..its undeniable fact that helps.

Despite all of that they won the championship only by one point. Interesting indeed that the McLaren ECU was a decisive factor too. Luckily the possible standard engine (if that's ever coming) should not be from any of the current teams.
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Re: Is Hamilton a great Champion? is massa a good second?

Post by KurtF1 » 04 Nov 2008, 23:37

hamilton surely is a champion, he was built this way... but i really think that if he wouldn't won thi title he would now be screwed up... instead with this victory he will be even more solid i think...
massa surprised me, i always liked him but just because he has a good character and all, but this year he really became competitive and i think something in his mind has switched, so he'll be a top driver from now on...

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Re: Is Hamilton a great Champion? is massa a good second?

Post by AzShadow » 05 Nov 2008, 15:15

It's also interesting to note that it's the first time since 1989 that the champion has had fewer race wins than the runner-up.
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Re: Is Hamilton a great Champion? is massa a good second?

Post by koinek » 05 Nov 2008, 15:34

Hamilton is the champion. Sure. But a great champion? I'm not sure about that. It's the same with Kimi IMO. They are both good but they have serious faults in their personalities and driving styles.

Lewis is unbearably arrogant both in the press and in the cockpit. He can't drive an economical race to save his life. Yea you can argue schumi was the same way but he had to calm down before he won his first totally controversy free title in 2000.

I really feel Massa deserved the title this year. After playing second fiddle to MS and then Kimi, he needed a boost. Also, he has improved so much over this year. His personality is the gold lining on the picture too. Probably one of the most gracious, least judgmental people in the paddock.

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Re: Is Hamilton a great Champion? is massa a good second?

Post by Tommi » 05 Nov 2008, 20:49

Hamilton is the worst champion since Villeneuve. :shhh:

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Re: Is Hamilton a great Champion? is massa a good second?

Post by ponkumar » 05 Nov 2008, 22:13

This is year Hamilton is the champion.but kimi is also a great driver.

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