The current rules work!!!

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Sanredrose
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Re: The current rules work!!!

Post by Sanredrose » 18 Oct 2008, 08:41

FIA never thought of the Economic downturn that could happen. So they probably emphasized earlier of KERS, simply thinking that making the sport greener is more important. But now the situation has reversed.

What ever rules they are currently trying to introduce is basically trying to mess with an existing system ! What problem did we have with slick tyres in 96 & 97 ? Wasn't the championship interesting ? In fact 1997 had Mclaren, Ferrari, Williams, Benetton & Jordan winning races ! But from 1998 only Mclaren & Ferrari managed to win. Though the 1998 season was good, FIA basically messed up with the structure shuffling the remaining team in terms of their grid order.

FIA can be renamed as " Federation of Illiterate Automobile Maniacs " ! :shhh:

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TwistedArmco
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Re: Standard Engine Tender

Post by TwistedArmco » 18 Oct 2008, 13:25

Let's call it GP1. That would be more adequate.
No, I'm not calmer. Just more jaded.

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Re: Standard Engine Tender

Post by swca92 » 18 Oct 2008, 13:41

Lets call it A2GP,that's even more bloody adequate.

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Re: Standard Engine Tender

Post by AzShadow » 18 Oct 2008, 15:46

More rumors about Mosley's true motives:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71558 wrote:Senior sources have suggested there is a fear within FOTA that Mosley is using the threat of a standard engine, plus recent suggestions of engine equalization rules and the return of customer cars, as a way to break what has appeared to be rare unity in team ranks following the formation of FOTA.

Suspicions of a bid to destabilize FOTA increased in China when high-level sources suggested that the organisation had been asked to change its name because Formula One Management owned the trademark to 'Formula One.'

Most teams and manufacturers have maintained their silence so far on the FIA's bid to introduce a standard engine in F1, or reveal details about what their plans for Tuesday's meeting are.

However, Williams co-owner Patrick Head said on Saturday that he was not surprised Mosley had opted for a shock tactic like the introduction of standard engines to prompt teams into action.

"I think Max is quite serious about it, but I suppose after many years of dealing with F1 teams and representatives of manufacturers in F1 he has rather developed the view that any mechanism of change not only has to be painful but is going to be painful," explained Head.

"If you say to the teams how are you going to reduce costs or how are you going to make change, then none of them want to make change. That is the problem.

"Max is in quite regular contact with people at senior levels of manufacturers, just as he is in regular contact with people in senior positions at teams like Williams or Red Bull. All those people say that current costs in F1 are not sustainable. So his view is that if it is left as it is, there will be a number of departures."
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Re: The current rules work!!!

Post by blizzard » 18 Oct 2008, 22:23

Sanredrose wrote:FIA never thought of the Economic downturn that could happen. So they probably emphasized earlier of KERS, simply thinking that making the sport greener is more important. But now the situation has reversed.

What ever rules they are currently trying to introduce is basically trying to mess with an existing system ! What problem did we have with slick tyres in 96 & 97 ? Wasn't the championship interesting ? In fact 1997 had Mclaren, Ferrari, Williams, Benetton & Jordan winning races ! But from 1998 only Mclaren & Ferrari managed to win. Though the 1998 season was good, FIA basically messed up with the structure shuffling the remaining team in terms of their grid order.

FIA can be renamed as " Federation of Illiterate Automobile Maniacs " ! :shhh:



Ermm...In 1997 Williams, Ferrari, McLaren and Benetton won races, in 1998 McLaren, Ferrari and Jordan won. So you messed up Damon Hill´s victory for Jordan, it was in 98, after Michael retired at Spa (the infamous Coulthard incident), not in 97 :thumbsup:

I Don´t want to sound precociously, but I saw it and felt like I have to correct it :) Sry mate. :O
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Re: The current rules work!!!

Post by Sanredrose » 18 Oct 2008, 22:28

blizzard wrote:
Sanredrose wrote:FIA never thought of the Economic downturn that could happen. So they probably emphasized earlier of KERS, simply thinking that making the sport greener is more important. But now the situation has reversed.

What ever rules they are currently trying to introduce is basically trying to mess with an existing system ! What problem did we have with slick tyres in 96 & 97 ? Wasn't the championship interesting ? In fact 1997 had Mclaren, Ferrari, Williams, Benetton & Jordan winning races ! But from 1998 only Mclaren & Ferrari managed to win. Though the 1998 season was good, FIA basically messed up with the structure shuffling the remaining team in terms of their grid order.

FIA can be renamed as " Federation of Illiterate Automobile Maniacs " ! :shhh:



Ermm...In 1997 Williams, Ferrari, McLaren and Benetton won races, in 1998 McLaren, Ferrari and Jordan won. So you messed up Damon Hill´s victory for Jordan, it was in 98, after Michael retired at Spa (the infamous Coulthard incident), not in 97 :thumbsup:

I Don´t want to sound precociously, but I saw it and felt like I have to correct it :) Sry mate. :O


Yeah its possible that i forgot some famous victories. But look at the majority proportion. Jordan won a single race in 98. But in 1997 Mclaren won 3, Ferrari should have won 5 or so & Williams around 6 wins. That's something that's kind of interesting.

Last year it was Mclaren or Ferrari all the way, i don't remember seeing anyone else win the race. In 2008 so far Mclaren, Renault, Ferrari & BMW have won races. So that's pretty good. Mad Max is a loose canon, his rampage is going to make things worse and not better.

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Re: Standard Engine Tender

Post by syncmaster » 19 Oct 2008, 04:53

I think it not cost cutting its fun cutting
Desire has no limits
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Re: Standard Engine Tender

Post by Sanredrose » 19 Oct 2008, 08:39

syncmaster wrote:I think it not cost cutting its fun cutting


Probably Mad Max is trying to de-stabilize the FOTA campaign. He simply doesn't want anyone to be stronger than him & Bernie in F1.

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Re: The current rules work!!!

Post by TwistedArmco » 19 Oct 2008, 11:19

You forgot Toro Rosso..
No, I'm not calmer. Just more jaded.

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blizzard
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Re: The current rules work!!!

Post by blizzard » 19 Oct 2008, 13:47

Sanredrose wrote:
blizzard wrote:
Sanredrose wrote:FIA never thought of the Economic downturn that could happen. So they probably emphasized earlier of KERS, simply thinking that making the sport greener is more important. But now the situation has reversed.

What ever rules they are currently trying to introduce is basically trying to mess with an existing system ! What problem did we have with slick tyres in 96 & 97 ? Wasn't the championship interesting ? In fact 1997 had Mclaren, Ferrari, Williams, Benetton & Jordan winning races ! But from 1998 only Mclaren & Ferrari managed to win. Though the 1998 season was good, FIA basically messed up with the structure shuffling the remaining team in terms of their grid order.

FIA can be renamed as " Federation of Illiterate Automobile Maniacs " ! :shhh:



Ermm...In 1997 Williams, Ferrari, McLaren and Benetton won races, in 1998 McLaren, Ferrari and Jordan won. So you messed up Damon Hill´s victory for Jordan, it was in 98, after Michael retired at Spa (the infamous Coulthard incident), not in 97 :thumbsup:

I Don´t want to sound precociously, but I saw it and felt like I have to correct it :) Sry mate. :O


Yeah its possible that i forgot some famous victories. But look at the majority proportion. Jordan won a single race in 98. But in 1997 Mclaren won 3, Ferrari should have won 5 or so & Williams around 6 wins. That's something that's kind of interesting.

Last year it was Mclaren or Ferrari all the way, i don't remember seeing anyone else win the race. In 2008 so far Mclaren, Renault, Ferrari & BMW have won races. So that's pretty good. Mad Max is a loose canon, his rampage is going to make things worse and not better.




I agree with you, a 100%. But that´s not a new problem, the person must be removed for the sake of F1, but unfortunately he´s glued to his seat as FIA president. But I also can´t see good alternatives to Mad Max, Tomcyck?, Todt?, Piccinini? No thx!
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Re: The current rules work!!!

Post by kimi and mika » 19 Oct 2008, 19:45

I don't see the point in all these rule changes, can't they leave it alone for at least 2 years, everybody is used to it like this and then they change it, then in 2010 there could be more changes. This all spreads out the field, they might make overtaking easier but with KERS and other things the teams will be more spead out, it makes no difference. I agree that it should be more consistant.
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Re: The current rules work!!!

Post by blizzard » 20 Oct 2008, 16:15

I would love it, if the big manufacturers would leave F1 and create their own series, with V10 power, unlimited testing and aerodynamics based on the early 2000´s F1 rules.

That whole topic about cutting costs in F1 is ridiculous. F1 will always be a mega expensive sport. When talking about cutting costs, why don´t they cut the ticket prizes? The average people are suffering most from inflation and financial crisis and 600 dollars or so for a grandstand weekend ticket is just a joke.
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Re: The current rules work!!!

Post by Ali » 20 Oct 2008, 16:17

You should read this.

The full letter to FOTA from Max Mosley
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71629
Spoiler:
The full letter to FOTA from Max Mosley

Monday, October 20th 2008, 12:29 GMT

Costs

The FIA believes that Formula One costs are unsustainable. Even before current global financial problems, teams were spending far more than their incomes, insofar as these consist of sponsorship plus F~0~M money. As a result, the independent teams are now dependent on the goodwill of rich individuals, while the manufacturers' teams depend on massive hand-outs from their parent companies.

There is now a real danger than in some cases these subsidies will cease. This could result in a reduction in the number of competitors, adding to the two team vacancies we already have and reducing the grid to an unacceptable level. The FIA's view is that Formula One can only be healthy if a team can race competitively for a budget at or very close to what it gets from F~0~M.

We should like to hear the teams' views on this together with comments on the FIA's proposals (set out below) and other suggestions for the measures which will be necessary if major reductions in cost are to be achieved.

Power train

2013
The FIA would like to see a modern high technology power train in 2013. We envisage a down-sized DI engine with exhaust energy and heat recovery, coupled to an electrically actuated gearbox.

However, we are completely open to new ideas. The only preconditions are:

(i) that the costs of development, maintenance and unit production for the power train must be an order of magnitude lower than is currently the case and
(ii) power trains must be available to independent teams at minimal cost.

2010- 2012 inclusive
At present we can offer three options.

Option 1
A homologated engine produced by a single supplier after an invitation to tender, with the current suppliers free to build an identical engine themselves (but not the gearbox), subject to rigorous controls.

Option 2
A consortium of teams obtains an engine to current rules but at much lower cost from a single supplier. Engines from other sources to be subject to rigorous controls to eliminate differences in performance.

Option 3
A proposal from FOTA, backed by solid guarantees, for the supply of complete power trains to independent teams for less than €5 million per team per season to include 30,000 km of testing and all on-track assistance.

2009
When the decision was taken to "freeze" the engines, certain teams asked for and got a period of time in which to address reliability problems and re-tune for 19,000 rpm. Some teams took advantage of this period to improve the power output of their engines. This was not intended. Other teams did not improve their engines, believing performance to have been "frozen".

This has produced unfair and inequitable differences in performance. The World Motor Sport Council has therefore decided that engine performance will be equalised in accordance with the 2009 Sporting Regulations in order to re-establish the position as it was when the freeze was agreed.

The FIA would like to discuss with FOTA technicians how best to achieve equalisation in a way which is fair to all and involves minimal cost.

The Chassis

The FIA envisages common parts for numerous areas of the chassis. For example, standard suspension and wheels (ie standard "corners"), a standard underbody and other parts which are currently the subject of major expenditure but add nothing to the spectacle or to the public interest of Formula One.

Other measures, such as a minimum height for the centre of gravity, restrictions on the use of certain materials or the homologation of certain major components (eg the "tub") for a period of time, may also be appropriate.

We invite FOTA to make proposals together with a time scale for introduction.

Race procedures

The FIA would welcome suggestions for changes to the rules for going racing, with a view to reducing costs. We believe that priority should be given to things which the public cannot see (eg telemetry) rather than visible parts of "the show" (eg refuelling during the race).

The FIA would also like to hear teams' views about the distribution of garage space and space in the pit lane.
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Re: Standard Engine Tender

Post by chewie79 » 20 Oct 2008, 17:41

Next thing will be standardized drivers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Standard Engine Tender

Post by megasyxx » 20 Oct 2008, 18:16

i think mad max has gone mad!!!! :D :D :D
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