The outcome of the appeal

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Will Hamilton get his victory back?

Poll ended at 23 Sep 2008, 09:23

Yes
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Total votes: 30

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JoostLamers
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The outcome of the appeal

Post by JoostLamers » 22 Sep 2008, 09:23

So, here we are, it's the 22nd of September, which means that today will be the appeal, of the incident with Hamilton and Raikkonen in Belgium. Tomorrow is the 23rd of September, and that means that tomorrow we will all hear the outcome of the appeal. Leave your opinions here about the outcome of it. :thumbsup: And don't forget to fill in the poll at the top of this page :roll::
Do you think that Hamilton will get his victory back? Or do you think that the FIA will keep the Championship battle exciting...?
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f1freak
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Re: The outcome of the appeal

Post by f1freak » 22 Sep 2008, 09:46

I dont think that Lewis will win the appeal even if McLaren checked with race control whether the move was legal.As the stewards gave the explanation that Lewis could have only overtook kimi in the next corner which means he cold have overtaken him either at Eau Rouge or Les Combes.But still the ICA has to make the decision so lets wait till tomorrow & see what happens.

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Re: The outcome of the appeal

Post by Lemans3 » 22 Sep 2008, 09:47

Well, I have always felt that the FIA was more supportive towards Ferrari than McLaren. But let's leave that for what it is, and concentrate on the Belgium issue: Regardless if Lewis gained advantage or not, I feel that when McLaren indeed asked the officials whether the move was ok and the answer was positive they should give Lewis the points back. However I fear they will leave it as it is.

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Re: The outcome of the appeal

Post by blizzard » 22 Sep 2008, 10:20

Hm, hard to say. If they leave it as it is, the championship battle is very close and some sort of "exciting", with Massa and Hamilton nearly equal on points. On the other hand, they have the chance to get their reputation back, if they hand the win to Hamilton, but that would mean 5 point difference between Hamilton and Massa. I don´t think Bernie is d´accord with that.
Anyway, this appeal is not going to be decided by the officials who are present at the appeal, they´re just like messengers. The ones who decide this and everything else of relevance are Ecclestone and Mosley.
And that´s the real problem of the sport.
Sack Mosley and get Bernie out of F1 somehow.
We need a clean sport.
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Re: The outcome of the appeal

Post by Lightning983 » 22 Sep 2008, 12:00

I hope he doesn't win the appeal.
He did what he did in Spa, and if he waited just one corner after cutting the chicane, we wouldn't have this discussion now. BUt nooo, he had to prove that he has the "b***" and Kimi doesn't.

After the dirty driving i saw from him in Monza too, i'm 100% backing up him penalty.

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Re: The outcome of the appeal

Post by iceman1 » 22 Sep 2008, 12:04

No change, Penalty stands as is. has anyone ever won an appeal with the FIA??

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Re: The outcome of the appeal

Post by Fergie1 » 22 Sep 2008, 14:52

iceman1 wrote:No change, Penalty stands as is. has anyone ever won an appeal with the FIA??

Ferrari. Malaysia 99 I think. Probably for acceptable reasons tho.

Anyway whats your source, Autosport, ITV F1 and BBC aren't reporting this. Autosport is only saying the appeal is admissible.

The court was also played a radio clip of the conversation between McLaren sporting director Dave Ryan and race director Charlie Whiting at the time of the incident, which cited a preliminary approval for Hamilton giving up on his advantage.

The radio transcript stated:

Ryan: 'Do you believe that was okay? He gave the position back.'

Whiting: 'I believe it was. Yes.'

Ryan: 'You believe it was okay.'

Whiting: 'I believe it was okay.'

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70772

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Re: The outcome of the appeal

Post by swca92 » 22 Sep 2008, 15:26

I'll be astonished if the appeal is successful,and I wouldn't be surprised if they increased the penalty,perhaps disqualifying him from that race or something.The FIA won't want to reduce the authority of their race stewards and make the championship less close,and upset Ferrari,as they are the FIA's main ally in the politics of the sport.THE APPEAL WILL FAIL!

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Re: The outcome of the appeal

Post by shailf1 » 22 Sep 2008, 15:32

Appeal proceedings began in Paris this morning with regard to the 25-second penalty given to Lewis Hamilton following the Belgian Grand Prix.
We understand that the morning session focused on whether the appeal was admissible, as driver through penalties – the penalty applied was such, although post race – cannot be appealed.

Mark Philips QC, the McLaren barrister, has successfully argued that the appeal is admissible, arguing that it is with regard to the 25-second time penalty, and cited a prior incident involving Tonio Liuzzi and Adrian Sutil, in Japan last year, in which an identical time penalty was levied instead of a drive through.

The five judges – from Spain, Monaco, Austria the Netherlands and Switzerland – have adjourned for lunch, after which Lewis Hamilton is expected to speak once the discussions turn to the incident itself.

Philips argues that there was no advantage gained, and hence the penalty should not have been applied, saying in his opening address this morning:

"Millions of viewers watched Lewis Hamilton take the chequered flag at Spa on September 7. Millions of viewers had seen Lewis Hamilton as the quickest man on the circuit at the moment the rain started to fall. At that moment it became a question of when, and not if, he would drive past Kimi Raikkonen. In the wet Kimi Raikkonen was utterly defenceless. The world at large saw Lewis Hamilton on the podium taking the trophy, and then saw the post-race press conference.

"After about two hours the stewards decided to add 25 seconds to Lewis Hamilton's race time, so relegating him from first to third. The stewards say Lewis Hamilton cut a chicane and so gained an advantage. The evidence will show Lewis Hamilton gave the advantage back to Kimi Raikkonen. When they crossed the line, Hamilton was 6.7 kilometres per hour slower, and at one stage seven metres behind.

"If he had stayed behind Raikkonen through the corner and down the straight, he would have passed him anyway into turn one. But Lewis Hamilton had no other choice but to take an escape route, a decision he made at the last second through that chicane. The suggestion he could have braked and slowed down is simply wrong. If Kimi Raikkonen had not forced him off the track he would have passed him down the straight."


Perhaps the most controversial evidence presented by McLaren was a recording of the radio conversation in which Dave Ryan, McLaren Sporting Director, famously enquired of Race Director Charlie Whiting whether the driver had given up the advantage satisfactorily. The court heard the following exchange between Ryan and Whiting:

Ryan: 'Do you believe that was okay? He gave the position back.'

Whiting: 'I believe it was. Yes.'

Ryan: 'You believe it was okay.'

Whiting: 'I believe it was okay.'

The decision is expected to be made later today, although it may not be published until tomorrow (Tuesday) morning. At present, Hamilton is one point ahead of Ferrari rival Felipe Massa in the world title race – overturning the penalty would result in him being seven points ahead.

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Re: The outcome of the appeal

Post by Lightning983 » 22 Sep 2008, 15:40

Yeah Malaysia '99 Ferrari got 1st and 2nd place back, after some manufacturing mess with the barge-board being off by 2mm or something?
They proved later its not their fault or something so...

Honda wanted to appeal to their 2 race ban, but the FIA said if you do that, you could be DQ'ed for the rest of the season, so i can't say an appeal is always the best way to go.

And as its been posted a lot, you can't appeal a drive trough penalty... but we will see. If Mclaren pays their lawyers enough :D :D

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Re: The outcome of the appeal

Post by shailf1 » 22 Sep 2008, 15:42

it would be funny if the court bans hamilton from driving the rest of this season.

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Re: The outcome of the appeal

Post by AzShadow » 22 Sep 2008, 16:02

Fergie1 wrote:Autosport is only saying the appeal is admissible.

I think it says that only the McLaren lawyer thinks the appeal is admissible. So I'm not sure if they've decided on that yet.
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Re: The outcome of the appeal

Post by Zack » 22 Sep 2008, 16:10

http://formula-1.updatesport.com/news/a ... /view.html
Sep.22 (GMM) The International Court of Appeal will publish its decision about McLaren's Lewis Hamilton Spa-Francorchamps appeal on Tuesday.

The FIA court is set to hear the matter in Paris on Monday morning, after the Mercedes-powered team objected to race stewards' imposition of a 25-second penalty for illegal overtaking that retrospectively cost championship leader Hamilton his Belgian grand prix win.

Up for grabs are the six points the 23-year-old Briton lost as a result of his demotion from first to third place, and Massa's promotion, but the court's first task will be to rule on whether McLaren's appeal is even admissible.

Although just days before official action kicks off under lights in Singapore, Hamilton will personally attend the hearing, to take place at the FIA's Place de la Concorde headquarters.

"We have to have faith in the system, and in the fairness of the FIA International Court of Appeal," said McLaren boss Ron Dennis.

The team's lawyers are expected to argue two key points: that Hamilton had to cut the Bus Stop chicane to avoid colliding with Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen, and that he then voluntarily ceded the gained place back to the Finn before launching a new pass at La Source one corner later.

In addition to the real-time advice given by race director Charlie Whiting, McLaren might also be holding some undisclosed evidence close to its chest, according to the German press.

"We are not going to discuss the hearing with the media in advance, so we ask for your understanding," Mercedes' Norbert Haug told the news agency SID.

Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo is also reluctant to comment.

"I just hope that the rules are upheld," the Italian said.


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Re: The outcome of the appeal

Post by JoostLamers » 22 Sep 2008, 16:34

shail69 wrote:it would be funny if the court bans hamilton from driving the rest of this season.

yeah right :oh: dream on :wave:
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Re: The outcome of the appeal

Post by JoostLamers » 22 Sep 2008, 16:36

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