Continuity of FIA penalties

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Has F1 officialdom been consistent, particularly this year?

Yes
13
35%
No
24
65%
 
Total votes: 37

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JoostLamers
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Continuity of FIA penalties

Post by JoostLamers » 07 Sep 2008, 18:45

Thread for discussing ALL FIA decisions and the continuity thereof..
Are the FIA biased? Is the biased thing just a myth?

Decisions to consider.

1. Massa's lack of penalty at Valencia.
2. Penalties in GP2 for the same thing. Is this valid? Should GP2 and F1 rules be the same.
3. Lewis Hamilton's 25 second penalty. Is this fair? If not why, if so, why?

Don't attack other members. Don't ruin your opinions with swearing, not even one letter swearing. State your views, attack the FUA if you believe they are wrong, but this is a FORUM. Where members debate, not argue. So be reasonable.



(To joostlamers. This topic would get locked if it was merely discussing Hamilton's incident. This is to prevent it being locked, and looks at the wider issue of all FIA decisions.
TA)
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Re: Hamiltons penalty

Post by JoostLamers » 07 Sep 2008, 18:48

I just don't know what a driver can do more, than giving back the spot... I think no driver knows that anymore, after today's decission, except for the 2 red drivers...
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Re: Hamiltons penalty

Post by JoostLamers » 07 Sep 2008, 19:02

hahahaha, what a world class pic you have!!
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Re: Hamiltons penalty

Post by Suntrek » 07 Sep 2008, 19:18

Jost, it has happened before. In Suzuka 2005 Alonso overtook Klien (and Klien was NOT driving a Ferrari :O ) but he was too optimistic and had to cut the chicane. He also gave position back to Klien and overtook him again, properly this time. But the stewards judged he STILL had had an unfair advantage because of the extra momentum he had gained by cutting the chicane.

Alonso didn't get a drive-through though, he was ordered to give back position to Klien AGAIN. By this time Klien was waaaay behind him, and Alonso more or less had to stop on track and wait for him. :pout: Alonso lost something like 30 sec by it and most likely the race too.

Anyhow, it's exactly the same reasoning in Lewis' case, I think. The extra momentum he gained by cutting the chicane still helped him when he overtook Kimi the second time.

That said, I don't think it's a fair penalty. I didn't think it was in Alonso's case and I don't now.
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Re: Hamiltons penalty

Post by stu000 » 07 Sep 2008, 19:21

The penalty is totally ridiculous as it does not say anywhere whithin the rules that you are not to overtake other drivers when you have let them passed after cutting a corner or something else. It has no guidelines on how many corners drivers have to wait before allowing them to overtake. I remember in Japan 2005 when Alonso passed Klien, skipped the final chicane, let him back past down the straight and repasted him into the next corner. The only penalty given then was for Alonso to let Klien passed. Hamilton did this in some way when going into the chicane when they nearly colided with the williams and then Hamilton passed after Raikkonen spun.

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Re: Hamiltons penalty

Post by swca92 » 07 Sep 2008, 19:32

Suntrek wrote:Jost, it has happened before. In Suzuka 2005 Alonso overtook Klien (and Klien was NOT driving a Ferrari :O ) but he was too optimistic and had to cut the chicane. He also gave position back to Klien and overtook him again, properly this time. But the stewards judged he STILL had had an unfair advantage because of the extra momentum he had gained by cutting the chicane.

Alonso didn't get a drive-through though, he was ordered to give back position to Klien AGAIN. By this time Klien was waaaay behind him, and Alonso more or less had to stop on track and wait for him. :pout: Alonso lost something like 30 sec by it and most likely the race too.

Anyhow, it's exactly the same reasoning in Lewis' case, I think. The extra momentum he gained by cutting the chicane still helped him when he overtook Kimi the second time.

That said, I don't think it's a fair penalty. I didn't think it was in Alonso's case and I don't now.


That is incorrect.Alonso gave his place back and was told later he had done nothing wrong in the first place.That ost him the Suzuka 05 race.Massa got punished in Valencia with a fine for an offence more blatant than today's,not a time penalty.Also,today,Hamilton was forced to cut the chicane because Kimi forced him wide and Lewis had nowhere to go.Kimi's been let off.Lewis was slower down the straight than Kimi,and only overtook because Kimi braked so early for La Source.The penalty is ridiculous,and I hope McLaren get their points back in the appeal.Btw,why 25 seconds? Give Lewis the time it takes to go down the pitlane (Around 15 seconds),not a random figure.

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Re: Continuity of FIA penalties

Post by Suntrek » 07 Sep 2008, 19:34

Oh please don't get me started on unfair penalties...

How about Alonso being penalized for being 1 kilometer in front of Massa? (yes, when F1 stopped being a sport, remember?)

How about some hysterical time penalties for ignoring yellow flags in FP? Sutil ignored yellows IN RACE and got away with it.

How about crippling a perfectly legal car (Renault 2006) mid-season by deeming it was suddenly illegal?

How about MS cutting chicanes like a madman in Hungary 2006 and getting away with it?

For starters.
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Re: Continuity of FIA penalties

Post by swca92 » 07 Sep 2008, 19:39

I know I know.Today just adds to the tapestry.

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Re: Continuity of FIA penalties

Post by dazmoffman » 07 Sep 2008, 19:42

1. Massa's lack of penalty at Valencia.
this was in my opinion fair as massa was released into the path of another car as soon as the light turns green OR THE LOLIPOP is lifted you go so in that case the pit crew should be penalised for not paying care or attention and releasing a stationary car into traffic, i suppose the pit crew did recieve a slap from kimis rear tyre though maybe that was penalty enough.

2. Penalties in GP2 for the same thing. Is this valid? Should GP2 and F1 rules be the same.
I thought they were the same after all football has the same rules on the pitch whatever league you are in its all governed by fifa like motorsport is governed by the FIA.

3. Lewis Hamilton's 25 second penalty. Is this fair? If not why, if so, why?
No way was this fair if hamilton would not have ran wide into the bus stop he would of crashed into kimi instead he took the escape route and gave the position back < HE GAVE THE POSITION BACK. and then proceeded to out brake kimi into la source hairpin and that is what racing is or do you have to give back the position back and then wait a lap before overtaking.........NO you dont. a real bad judgment call the stewards.

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Re: Hamiltons penalty

Post by Suntrek » 07 Sep 2008, 19:56

swca92 wrote:
Suntrek wrote:Jost, it has happened before. In Suzuka 2005 Alonso overtook Klien (and Klien was NOT driving a Ferrari :O ) but he was too optimistic and had to cut the chicane. He also gave position back to Klien and overtook him again, properly this time. But the stewards judged he STILL had had an unfair advantage because of the extra momentum he had gained by cutting the chicane.

Alonso didn't get a drive-through though, he was ordered to give back position to Klien AGAIN. By this time Klien was waaaay behind him, and Alonso more or less had to stop on track and wait for him. :pout: Alonso lost something like 30 sec by it and most likely the race too.

Anyhow, it's exactly the same reasoning in Lewis' case, I think. The extra momentum he gained by cutting the chicane still helped him when he overtook Kimi the second time.

That said, I don't think it's a fair penalty. I didn't think it was in Alonso's case and I don't now.


That is incorrect.Alonso gave his place back and was told later he had done nothing wrong in the first place.That ost him the Suzuka 05 race.Massa got punished in Valencia with a fine for an offence more blatant than today's,not a time penalty.Also,today,Hamilton was forced to cut the chicane because Kimi forced him wide and Lewis had nowhere to go.Kimi's been let off.Lewis was slower down the straight than Kimi,and only overtook because Kimi braked so early for La Source.The penalty is ridiculous,and I hope McLaren get their points back in the appeal.Btw,why 25 seconds? Give Lewis the time it takes to go down the pitlane (Around 15 seconds),not a random figure.


No, it's correct. Alonso had to give the place back to Klien twice, and that's why he lost so much time - and the race. True, it was said afterwards that he hadn't done anything wrong the first time, but that only goes to show how haphazardly the stewards act.

Of course Hamilton had to cut the chicane because he had nowhere else to go. He shouldn't have been on the inside of Kimi right there in the first place! Kimi had the racing line and why on earth should he move out of the way for Hamilton? :blink:
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Re: Continuity of FIA penalties

Post by iceman1 » 07 Sep 2008, 21:08

Well done FIA. The best race for years, and they have soured it with an absolutely ridiculous decision which yet again makes F1 look stupid in front of the world’s media.

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Re: Continuity of FIA penalties

Post by blizzard » 07 Sep 2008, 21:29

1. Massa's lack of penalty at Valencia
- He was released by his team and watched the traffic lights correctly. So no mistake by Felipe, but it would have been fair, if they would have erased the constructors points for that race.

2. Penalties in GP2 for the same thing. Is this valid? Should GP2 and F1 rules be the same
- No, they are two different series, so they can apply different rules.

3. Lewis Hamilton's 25 second penalty. Is this fair? If not why, if so, why?
- First things first, 25 seconds is not ok. A 10 second penalty would have been the right decision, but they had to penalise him, because he didn´t act correctly. The rules say, that you must give the position back and let the driver pass. So what they mean is a clean pass and that didn´t happen.
He just backed off slightly and gave Kimi a little advantage, but kept momentum, picked up Kimi´s slipstream and overtook him with a hard move in la source.
So a penalty is justified in my oppinion.

What he should have done: Let Kimi pass cleanly, follow him closely through eau rouge and than attack on the straight. Nobody would have had something to criticise than.
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Re: Continuity of FIA penalties

Post by JoostLamers » 07 Sep 2008, 22:16

iceman1 wrote:Well done FIA. The best race for years, and they have soured it with an absolutely ridiculous decision which yet again makes F1 look stupid in front of the world’s media.

It lookes like they just want the championship to stay exciting :tired: ... But if it goes like the way it goes, it's pretty clear that I'm right with what i've just said. :s
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Re: Continuity of FIA penalties

Post by McLaren-Mercedes » 07 Sep 2008, 22:25

The FIA is a joke, they penalize McLaren for everything. Lewis is (in my opinion) the best driver in F1. Nobody can do such great races like he does.
He entertains millions of fans thanks to his fantastic moves and the FIA penalize him for that. He gave the position back to raikkonen today on the straight and then he outbraked him in the 1st corner, so what's the problem? As far as I know the rules say that you have to give the position back if you overtake somebody when cutting and that's what he did.

I hope the appeal of mclaren will be successful, but I think it's hopeless :<>:

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Re: Continuity of FIA penalties

Post by dazmoffman » 07 Sep 2008, 23:05

McLaren-Mercedes wrote:The FIA is a joke, they penalize McLaren for everything. Lewis is (in my opinion) the best driver in F1. Nobody can do such great races like he does.
He entertains millions of fans thanks to his fantastic moves and the FIA penalize him for that. He gave the position back to raikkonen today on the straight and then he outbraked him in the 1st corner, so what's the problem? As far as I know the rules say that you have to give the position back if you overtake somebody when cutting and that's what he did.

I hope the appeal of mclaren will be successful, but I think it's hopeless :<>:


agreed FIA will not over turn the guilty verdict even though hamilton DID give the position, just watched the race again and realised that raikenon was in the lead when hamilton nearly collided with rosberg 10secs before hitting the wall

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