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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic Energy Recovery System - KERS
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2008, 14:29  
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Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 07:48
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the smaller teams will be left behind such as force india. they have only just come up with a gearbox that doesn't deccelerate when shifting. imagine incorporating this new 'KERS' system.
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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic Energy Recovery System - KERS
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2008, 16:43  
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Some reported budgets for KERS (Euros):

Honda 90m
McLaren 30m
STR 6m
Williams 2m (doesn't include the company they bought)
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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic Energy Recovery System - KERS
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2008, 17:15  
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iceman1 wrote:
Some reported budgets for KERS (Euros):
Honda 90m


we'll see yet another Epic Failure to next level from Honda :laugh1:

about Williams KERS
Quote:
By ATM_Andy
The Flybrid Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) is a very small and light device that meets the FIA regulations for the 2009 season.

The key system features are:

  • A flywheel made of steel and carbon fibre which rotates at over 60,000 RPM inside an evacuated chamber
  • The flywheel casing features containment to avoid the escape of any debris in the unlikely event of a flywheel failure
  • The flywheel is connected to the transmission of the car on the output side of the gearbox via several fixed ratios, a clutch and the CVT
  • 60 kW power transmission in either storage or recovery
  • 400 kJ of useable storage (after accounting for internal losses)
  • A total system weight of 24 kg
  • A total packaging volumeof 13 litres


The layout of the device is tailored exactly to meet the customer's requirement resulting in a truly bespoke solution that fits within the tight packaging constraints of a F1 car.

Image

The Continously Variable Transmission (CVT) used in the Flybrid system is a full toroidal system which is used under license from the developer Torotrak PLC of Leyland, UK.

The key CVT components are engineered and manufactured by Xtrac Ltd of Thatcham, UK who are a highly respected manufacturer of motorsport transmissions.

The three companies (Flybrid Systems, Torotrak and Xtrac) have worked together to develop a well engineered device and continue to work together to promote their joint interest in the project.

FAQ

How big are the gyroscopic processional forces?
Gyroscopic forces are proportional to rotational speed and inertia so although our flywheel speed is high our mass is very low and consequently the forces are low. For the Formula One system the maximum force experienced on the track is expected to be less than 130 NM.

Presumably the flywheel will slow down quite quickly if the stored energy is not used? The flywheel will slow down due to friction in the bearings and seals but because it runs in a vacuum the losses are low.

How safe is a high speed flywheel? Flybrid Systems take safety very seriously and have invented a special containment mechanism to help make sure that their system is safe. To demonstrate the safety of the Formula One system a full speed spinning flywheel will be subjected to a crash test similar to that which the nosecone of the car must pass.

The specific storage capacity (kJ/kg) of some batteries is much greater than that of even a high-speed flywheel so surely it will be less effective? Whilst the useable flywheel storage capacity is less than some batteries all of it can be used at full power. The rated capacity of batteries can be misleading as they cannot deliver (or accept) anything like the rated power over the full depth of charge. They also have a very short life if you use all the storage capacity. Storage capacity is useless if you cannot charge it up and during typical vehicle usage the hybrid system is almost always power limited. Just think about how long you spend on the throttle compared to how long you spend on the brakes and you will immediately see that power during energy storage is THE limiting factor.

How environmentally friendly is this technology? Very. The system is made entirely from conventional materials with the only exception being the carbon fibre wrap around the flywheel that holds it together at our very high speed. This makes it easy to produce and to recycle.

When might I be able to buy a road car with this technology? We expect to have a prototype road car running during 2009 but we expect it will take several years to make it to mainstream production. We hope it will be possible to buy one before the new EU emissions rules come into force in 2012. If you are very wealthy please phone us - it could be much sooner!

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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic Energy Recovery System - KERS
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2008, 17:19  
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90m??? if honda would still be at the tail-end for next year, i guess that would be the answer....they spent all resources on kers and neglected the others :laugh1:

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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic Energy Recovery System - KERS
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2008, 19:59  
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Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 20:15
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I think Honda will be nearer the front...maybe mid-field. Anyway, I don't like the idea of KERS as it will spread out the field and costs lodes. These are 2 things that the sport don't need. Hopefully it will be safe...I wouldn't like to be the driver in the first race of the season!

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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic Energy Recovery System - KERS
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2008, 11:35  
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I like KERS and i think it will be fun!!!.Its just like nitrous in the video games as they will have a boost button on their steering and they will have to press them when they need???
Does any one known that these will be an important point in the lap timings or it will be equal for every one?

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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic Energy Recovery System - KERS
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2008, 17:11  
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What do you mean by being equal to everyone? Of course there are differences, maybe huge, if some teams manage to get their KERS working earlier than others. The biggest advantage is at the starts though and since starts are like the most important part of the race you don't want to miss out on KERS for too long.

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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic Energy Recovery System - KERS
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2008, 18:00  
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equal means the power developed by each car or team will be equal or they will differ and teams with more KERS will be having advantage?For example BMW there are being working on KERS from a long time so they may have more power......

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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic Energy Recovery System - KERS
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2008, 20:44  
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Of course the power you gain from KERS is supposed to be the same for everybody but it's not like everyone gets their KERS working at the same level at once.

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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic Energy Recovery System - KERS
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2008, 12:45  
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can the teams having KERS use it in the start? If so then they could conserve some energy during the warmup lap and you could gain a lot of places if you have an extra boost at the start.
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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic Energy Recovery System - KERS
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2008, 14:30  
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I dont think that teams can store any energy from the warm up lap as they will be very slow in the warm up

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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic Energy Recovery System - KERS
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2008, 14:34  
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How slow you are you still have to brake and then that is stored. It will not be much but it should be enough for getting a good start.
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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic Energy Recovery System - KERS
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2008, 17:27  
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Every one will be having that so thats not a thing where a driver can have the advantage.And i think FIA will not allow them to use the boost at the starting of the race as it will act like launch control

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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic Energy Recovery System - KERS
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2008, 17:38  
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Except that at the start of the season everyone will not be having KERS ready yet. Thus some drivers might gain a huge advantage. I'm not that technical person so I can't tell how it will exactly work, but I've read drivers saying that the KERS does make a difference at the starts and so I believe them for now.

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 Post subject: Re: Kinetic Energy Recovery System - KERS
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2008, 17:56  
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And i also remember the comment made by Mark Webber that KERS would be problem for drivers who are heavy according to their weights

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