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 Post subject: Re: Compare Kimi / Lewis in Montreal and Kimi / Sutil in Monaco
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2008, 01:18  
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yeah, a bit silly to compare the two incidents with each other. like its been!
but jsut for one thing, racing incident refers to a mutual accident that couldnt have been prevented during the racing laps. in the pitlane where cars where stationary? thats not a racing incident.

to say that the FIA stewards are favouring ferrari is a bit much. ill admit that the were very easy going when it came to a michael schumacher inccident and the michael was lucky with some decisions but come on... as if it isnt cear that the new favouritefor FIA (at least for last year) was/is Lewis Hamilton!
it wouldhave been ludicrous not to have penalised him for the pit lane mistake. even schumacher got a penalty for hitting webber in the pitlane in 2004 i think it was and that was during a practise session.

to answer the thread topic, you cannot compare the two accidents... kimis was a display of skill to keep his +250km/h car out of the barriers wich resulted i unlucky contact which as said, wouldnt hae changed the outcome of the race too much.
the other was just stupidity.

thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Compare Kimi / Lewis in Montreal and Kimi / Sutil in Monaco
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2008, 11:59  
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joostlamers wrote:
Same, both didn't pay attention. Both should get a penalty I think, but giving only Lewis a penalty is just insane.


How the bloody hell was Kimi not paying attention. He lost the back end slipping in a half dry track in the same piece where Coulthard lost it in the DRY. Does coulthard deserve a penalty? No. Did kimi deserve a penalty? No. You cant help loosing the car. If you noticed he braked earlier so he wouldnt make a mistake, and he slipped. He was trying to hold on to the car and not smash it into the barriers causing a pile up behind him and hit sutil's car.

Unfair for Sutil, however, if the excuse regarding him loosing point comes up, then thats invalid because Sutil overtook under waved yellow flags. So in theory, depending on the danger sutil could have been easily black flagged and so forth. But he retired and was given a 25 second penalty either way.

So, no. Lewis' punishment is deserved. Same with if it was felipe, or Kimi or Fernando. Though i guess if it was fernando it'd be a million times worse and british press would have a field day slating him. Which makes me sick to the teeth :)
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 Post subject: Re: Compare Kimi / Lewis in Montreal and Kimi / Sutil in Monaco
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2008, 14:21  
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Joined: 27 Apr 2008, 20:39
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Being a hamilton fan i was gutted to see something so needless and silly to happen as that ( especialy as there was no need for the saftey car in the first place, Kimi shouldnt have realy been parked side by side with Kubica as you are not allowed to overtake in the pitlane or under safety car and Kubica was released first, and the pure fact that the red light turned green a matter of seconds after the incident happend!)

But a penalty of some sort is deserved because lewis ended another drivers race through a needless mistake of his own, but you could always say that Kimi ended sutils race through a needless mistake (being over cautious and breaking early with the knowledge of what had happend to coulthard, every other driver seemed to be able to negotiat that breaking zone, not the driving of a world champ in my eyes) so Kimi is also elegable for a penalty.

I think Mike Gascoin hit the nail on the head by saying "It would be a different story if Adrian had hit Kimi from behind and taken him out"

I think a 10 place grid penalty is a bit harsh, but i think a penalty should have been applied for both incidents, maybe a 5 place grid penalty would be more appropriat.

Just my personal view which im sure quite a lot of people would dissagree with! :cheezy:
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 Post subject: Re: Compare Kimi / Lewis in Montreal and Kimi / Sutil in Monaco
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2008, 14:45  
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Joined: 05 Jun 2008, 08:18
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I just thought that it was all so superbly scripted - after the race build up, with Hamilton once again comparing himself to Senna, he then goes and does something so unbelievably dumb, something that Senna would never have done in a month of Sundays. At the end of that pre-race interview, I said to my housemates: "He doesn't even deserve to mention Senna's name!"...within 30 minutes, I was proved right...

(btw...I'm expected some negative responses to this, just my personal opinion though!)
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 Post subject: Re: Compare Kimi / Lewis in Montreal and Kimi / Sutil in Monaco
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2008, 14:47  
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Joined: 05 Jun 2008, 08:18
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P.S - I do think it's harsh on rosberg. He was just next in line from the fallout of what Hamilton did. Hamilton got the 10 place grid demotion for impacting on someone else's race (raikonnen's), Rosberg can hardly be accused of doing that to Hamilton, if anything his crash affected his own race.
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 Post subject: Re: Compare Kimi / Lewis in Montreal and Kimi / Sutil in Monaco
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2008, 14:58  
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Joined: 27 Apr 2008, 20:39
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I think you missed the point a little bit for this topic :)
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 Post subject: Re: Compare Kimi / Lewis in Montreal and Kimi / Sutil in Monaco
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2008, 17:15  
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tbh they are completely different, and only Lewis deserves the penalty.

Kimi was at high speed in a race, and it was unlucky as he only lost control as he was braking early.

Hamilton was just plain stoooopid. His team even told him the light was red, and how could you not notice 2 stopped cars in front of you!

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 Post subject: Re: Compare Kimi / Lewis in Montreal and Kimi / Sutil in Monaco
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2008, 17:34  
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Both of them were avoidable, but the Canada incident was just stupid by hamlton and rosberg. On the other side, Räikkönen is not allowed to complain too much about Hamilton because, he also caused a stupid accident at Monaco Grand Prix

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 Post subject: Re: Compare Kimi / Lewis in Montreal and Kimi / Sutil in Monaco
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2008, 18:41  
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 11:43
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Both where silly mistakes so no need for this topic.

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 Post subject: Re: Compare Kimi / Lewis in Montreal and Kimi / Sutil in Monaco
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2008, 18:57  
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This is very easily solved.

Kimi didn't break any rules -> nothing to punish him for. Hamilton did break rules -> receives punishment.

FIA sporting rules 40.11:

If there's a red light at the pit exit you are supposed to stop.

Hamilton didn't.

End of.

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 Post subject: Re: Compare Kimi / Lewis in Montreal and Kimi / Sutil in Monaco
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2008, 19:47  
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Suntrek wrote:
This is very easily solved.

Kimi didn't break any rules -> nothing to punish him for. Hamilton did break rules -> receives punishment.

FIA sporting rules 40.11:

If there's a red light at the pit exit you are supposed to stop.

Hamilton didn't.

End of.


Agreed :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Compare Kimi / Lewis in Montreal and Kimi / Sutil in Monaco
PostPosted: 11 Jun 2008, 20:04  
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Yep, I think we no longer need to discuss it

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 Post subject: Re: Compare Kimi / Lewis in Montreal and Kimi / Sutil in Monaco
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2008, 05:40  
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I don't think its the same thing what happened with A. Sutil and Kimi Raikkonen. Kimi was on a very high speed at that time and the car simply did not respond to his reactions and unfortunately he crashed on Adrian an ruin his first points. Hamilton on the other hand crashed on Kimi with his mind somewhere else not in Canada cirkuit. Didn't see the red light? What was he thinking?
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 Post subject: Re: Compare Kimi / Lewis in Montreal and Kimi / Sutil in Monaco
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2008, 09:58  
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metalpigy wrote:
Being a hamilton fan i was gutted to see something so needless and silly to happen as that ( especialy as there was no need for the saftey car in the first place, Kimi shouldnt have realy been parked side by side with Kubica as you are not allowed to overtake in the pitlane or under safety car and Kubica was released first, and the pure fact that the red light turned green a matter of seconds after the incident happend!)

But a penalty of some sort is deserved because lewis ended another drivers race through a needless mistake of his own, but you could always say that Kimi ended sutils race through a needless mistake (being over cautious and breaking early with the knowledge of what had happend to coulthard, every other driver seemed to be able to negotiat that breaking zone, not the driving of a world champ in my eyes) so Kimi is also elegable for a penalty.

I think Mike Gascoin hit the nail on the head by saying "It would be a different story if Adrian had hit Kimi from behind and taken him out"

I think a 10 place grid penalty is a bit harsh, but i think a penalty should have been applied for both incidents, maybe a 5 place grid penalty would be more appropriat.

Just my personal view which im sure quite a lot of people would dissagree with! :cheezy:


i think you need to take you hamilton tinted glasses off! :wave:

suntrek is right, to even hesitate on th thought of penalising kimi is just insane! that was an actual racing incodent...
hamilto wasnt racing anyone when the red light at the end of the pitlane was on.
and besides, nakijima in australa got a penalty (for the next race) for raming under safety car... it wasnt even in the pit lane!!!

i really dont understand how some of you can be defending hamilton still... i really dont. :sad:

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 Post subject: Re: Compare Kimi / Lewis in Montreal and Kimi / Sutil in Monaco
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2008, 10:11  
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007, 05:27
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WDC wrote:
i think you need to take you hamilton tinted glasses off! :wave:

suntrek is right, to even hesitate on th thought of penalising kimi is just insane! that was an actual racing incodent...
hamilto wasnt racing anyone when the red light at the end of the pitlane was on.
and besides, nakijima in australa got a penalty (for the next race) for raming under safety car... it wasnt even in the pit lane!!!

i really dont understand how some of you can be defending hamilton still... i really dont. :sad:


Amateurs to the sport thats what it is! :huh:

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