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 Post subject: Re: Will Jenson Button win the WDC with Brawn GP ???
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2009, 14:52  
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Haukinen wrote:
alex1369 wrote:
apsolutley he will win it, probably in spa or monza, nothing can stop him, he makes no mistakes, car goes like clockwork, he has the best car -- so perfect combination, just like good old schumi days - 2000 - 2004

This brings another question. Was Schumacher really so talented? I mean he had Ross Brawn on his side...


He dominated in the rain, plus he didn´t sit in the best car until 2001.
Williams and McLaren were the best cars in the 90´s and still Schumacher took it to them and eventuelly managed to beat them. No other driver apart from Senna could have done that.

Don´t think too much of the 2002-2004 era, where he had the best car, you must judge Schumacher on his performances from the 90´s and the 2000 season. Guys like Button or Raikkönen are brilliant, no doubt about that, but they need a special car to win things, guys like Senna or Schumacher could win in the 3rd best car.

And to answer your question: Yes he was THAT good! :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Will Jenson Button win the WDC with Brawn GP ???
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2009, 16:26  
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 Post subject: Re: Will Jenson Button win the WDC with Brawn GP ???
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2009, 20:40  
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blizzard wrote:
He dominated in the rain, plus he didn´t sit in the best car until 2001.
Williams and McLaren were the best cars in the 90´s and still Schumacher took it to them and eventuelly managed to beat them. No other driver apart from Senna could have done that.
Sorry, but I'm not quite following you here. Schumacher clearly had the best car in '94 and '95 when he won the championships. And in 2000 Ferrari was the strongest car for most of the season, especially at the last crucial races.

Your post just made it sound like Schumacher won championships with way inferior cars while in fact he did have the best car with him just like pretty much almost every champion has had.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Jenson Button win the WDC with Brawn GP ???
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2009, 04:45  
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yes schumi had it all, brawn, todt, strategy was perfect, they achieved some fantastic results, like 4 stop in france or hungary 1998, also schumi always could deliver what is expected so it was just matter of the car, so when he got it, he slamed the titeles like piece of cake
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 Post subject: Re: Will Jenson Button win the WDC with Brawn GP ???
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2009, 12:10  
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AzShadow wrote:
blizzard wrote:
He dominated in the rain, plus he didn´t sit in the best car until 2001.
Williams and McLaren were the best cars in the 90´s and still Schumacher took it to them and eventuelly managed to beat them. No other driver apart from Senna could have done that.
Sorry, but I'm not quite following you here. Schumacher clearly had the best car in '94 and '95 when he won the championships. And in 2000 Ferrari was the strongest car for most of the season, especially at the last crucial races.

Your post just made it sound like Schumacher won championships with way inferior cars while in fact he did have the best car with him just like pretty much almost every champion has had.



In 95 the Williams clearly was the best car, just ask Gerhard Berger how shocked he was after testing the B195 for the first time in the winter :O
In 94 Benetton had the best Chassis and Suspension, but an engine that was about 60-80 hp down on the Renault engine in the Williams.
In 2000 the McLaren was still marginally quicker than the Ferrari, but had more trouble with reliability.

Fact is Schumacher AND Senna were the only ones, who could win races in the 3rd best car. Not championships, but races.
In terms of championships all they needed was a car which was nearly as good or equally good to the best car to be wc. Senna 90 and Schumacher 95 stand out for me as an example, Prost´s Ferrari was as good as the McLaren Honda in 1990 and the Williams was better than the Benetton in 95.
If you don´t believe me, because you hate Schumacher than believe the facts. What happened in 96 after Schumacher left Benetton? Yeah right and who won 3 races, the same year in a c**p car that broke down, as soon as it left the garage? Right again :)

I don´t want to start another argument on Schumacher, I´m a bit sick and tired of this discussion, I heard it far too often. People like him or not, I know that he is the greatest of all time, together with Senna.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Jenson Button win the WDC with Brawn GP ???
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2009, 12:53  
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im ex-schumi fan, when he left i became hamilton fan, i accidently watched the gp2 race in istanbul in 2006 and lewis blew me away, so from that point i knew if lewis someday comes to f1, im his fan
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 Post subject: Re: Will Jenson Button win the WDC with Brawn GP ???
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2009, 12:57  
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alex1369 wrote:
im ex-schumi fan, when he left i became hamilton fan, i accidently watched the gp2 race in istanbul in 2006 and lewis blew me away, so from that point i knew if lewis someday comes to f1, im his fan

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I saw Lewis winning the GP2 race at the Nürburgring, I remember me taking a picture off him with my crappy mobile phone, thinking he would be a future F1 driver(!, not star!). And look at him :p

But I think Hamilton (and Alonso) did not have the best car in 2007 and 2008, and still won races.. And Hamilton in 2008 the championship.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Jenson Button win the WDC with Brawn GP ???
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2009, 19:56  
blizzard wrote:
And to answer your question: Yes he was THAT good! :thumbsup:


Yes he was, which can't be said about Button
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Will Jenson Button win the WDC with Brawn GP ???
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2009, 20:02  
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I think the McLaren and Ferrari were pretty even in 2007 and 2008. The McLaren was better on hard tyres and more reliable, while the Ferrari had an advantage on the soft tyres and more engine power.

If you go strictly by stats, then Hamilton did a combined better job in 2007 and 2008 than either Massa in 2007 and 2008 or Raikkönen.

But it was also Ferrari´s fault, that Massa lost the championship last year, engine failure at Hungaroring and traffic lights at Singapore.


Back to the topic:
What about an Alonso/Button driver combination at Ferrari next year? :O

A 2 time WC Alonso, hot temper and hungry for wins, very emotional inside the car + a then WC Button, very controlled inside the car, experienced and a gentleman driver, but also a hard worker.

What a fantastic combination that would be, reminds me of Prost/Mansell in 1990. :hug:

and btw: Button still hasn´t signed a new contract with Brawn.... :n

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 Post subject: Re: Will Jenson Button win the WDC with Brawn GP ???
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2009, 06:52  
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Last year no one thought Button would finish in the points this season and yet, out of the blue, Button is going to win.
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 Post subject: Re: Will Jenson Button win the WDC with Brawn GP ???
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2009, 11:56  
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brawn clearly has the magic touch and what hes doing right now is taking some of the wind out of schumi's sails. and button without a doubt
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 Post subject: Re: Will Jenson Button win the WDC with Brawn GP ???
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2009, 11:09  
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AzShadow wrote:
Sorry, but I'm not quite following you here. Schumacher clearly had the best car in '94 and '95 when he won the championships. And in 2000 Ferrari was the strongest car for most of the season, especially at the last crucial races.

Your post just made it sound like Schumacher won championships with way inferior cars while in fact he did have the best car with him just like pretty much almost every champion has had.


I disagree. See off topic:
Off-Topic: show
Schumi's car through most of 1994 was inferior to the Williams in pace, being more drivable in the opening half of the season; it just happened that Damon Hill was in fact the least talented British champion ever and was unable to use the car at his disposal. In 1995, the cars were more even.

In 2000, the cars were pretty much even. From 2001-2004 Schumi's car was easily the best over a whole season (2001,2003)/all the season (2002,2004), granted. However, Schumi transcended his car more often and to a greater degree than most other champions ever have, which is why I would rate him AMONG the very best. (I don't think he was the best though, sorry Blizzard. :) )


Button on the other hand is in what has been so far the most dominant car. I believe he is still doing better with it than anyone else is doing with their cars' relative strengths, but his is definitely a hell of a machine.

What we may see over the season is Red Bull becoming the dominant car, and this is some championships go; the first half of a season belongs to one manufacturor/driver combination, the second to another (think 2005/2006). Depending upon the strength of Red Bull's fightback before Button inevitably wins the championship, we can rate his championship against others with this age old debate over car dominance.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Jenson Button win the WDC with Brawn GP ???
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2009, 11:26  
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TwistedArmco wrote:
What we may see over the season is Red Bull becoming the dominant car, and this is some championships go; the first half of a season belongs to one manufacturor/driver combination, the second to another (think 2005/2006). Depending upon the strength of Red Bull's fightback before Button inevitably wins the championship, we can rate his championship against others with this age old debate over car dominance.


I m not too optimistic about this scenario .. i feel silverstone was one off ''hmm''

Now we have seen neither Brawns or RBR driver has able to reach podium from lower than 2nd grid :zz:

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 Post subject: Re: Will Jenson Button win the WDC with Brawn GP ???
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2009, 11:30  
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TwistedArmco wrote:
AzShadow wrote:
Sorry, but I'm not quite following you here. Schumacher clearly had the best car in '94 and '95 when he won the championships. And in 2000 Ferrari was the strongest car for most of the season, especially at the last crucial races.

Your post just made it sound like Schumacher won championships with way inferior cars while in fact he did have the best car with him just like pretty much almost every champion has had.


I disagree. See off topic:
Off-Topic: show
Schumi's car through most of 1994 was inferior to the Williams in pace, being more drivable in the opening half of the season; it just happened that Damon Hill was in fact the least talented British champion ever and was unable to use the car at his disposal. In 1995, the cars were more even.

In 2000, the cars were pretty much even. From 2001-2004 Schumi's car was easily the best over a whole season (2001,2003)/all the season (2002,2004), granted. However, Schumi transcended his car more often and to a greater degree than most other champions ever have, which is why I would rate him AMONG the very best. (I don't think he was the best though, sorry Blizzard. :) )


Button on the other hand is in what has been so far the most dominant car. I believe he is still doing better with it than anyone else is doing with their cars' relative strengths, but his is definitely a hell of a machine.

What we may see over the season is Red Bull becoming the dominant car, and this is some championships go; the first half of a season belongs to one manufacturor/driver combination, the second to another (think 2005/2006). Depending upon the strength of Red Bull's fightback before Button inevitably wins the championship, we can rate his championship against others with this age old debate over car dominance.


True, Button has been nearly faultless and it was the circuit that let him down - he was faster than Rosberg and Massa but could not overtake - at many other circuits he would have been able to, so I think Silverstone is a blip (JB is never good round there)

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 Post subject: Re: Will Jenson Button win the WDC with Brawn GP ???
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2009, 13:25  
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phil1993 wrote:
TwistedArmco wrote:
AzShadow wrote:
Sorry, but I'm not quite following you here. Schumacher clearly had the best car in '94 and '95 when he won the championships. And in 2000 Ferrari was the strongest car for most of the season, especially at the last crucial races.

Your post just made it sound like Schumacher won championships with way inferior cars while in fact he did have the best car with him just like pretty much almost every champion has had.


I disagree. See off topic:
Off-Topic: show
Schumi's car through most of 1994 was inferior to the Williams in pace, being more drivable in the opening half of the season; it just happened that Damon Hill was in fact the least talented British champion ever and was unable to use the car at his disposal. In 1995, the cars were more even.

In 2000, the cars were pretty much even. From 2001-2004 Schumi's car was easily the best over a whole season (2001,2003)/all the season (2002,2004), granted. However, Schumi transcended his car more often and to a greater degree than most other champions ever have, which is why I would rate him AMONG the very best. (I don't think he was the best though, sorry Blizzard. :) )


Button on the other hand is in what has been so far the most dominant car. I believe he is still doing better with it than anyone else is doing with their cars' relative strengths, but his is definitely a hell of a machine.

What we may see over the season is Red Bull becoming the dominant car, and this is some championships go; the first half of a season belongs to one manufacturor/driver combination, the second to another (think 2005/2006). Depending upon the strength of Red Bull's fightback before Button inevitably wins the championship, we can rate his championship against others with this age old debate over car dominance.


True, Button has been nearly faultless and it was the circuit that let him down - he was faster than Rosberg and Massa but could not overtake - at many other circuits he would have been able to, so I think Silverstone is a blip (JB is never good round there)


Button was faster than Massa and Roseberg in the last few laps because of the soft tires., in the second stint he was nowhere near their pace..
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