hamilton vs alonso article, your've gotta read this!

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devereux
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hamilton vs alonso article, your've gotta read this!

Post by devereux » 11 Oct 2007, 19:44

look at this guys review, i agreed with all of it

http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_ ... rps-v.html

October 10, 2007
John L Sharp's view of Fernando vs Lewis

EG writes: John L Sharp drives a Ferrari, supports Ferrari and reads this blog. A disinterested observer then. Here is his analysis of the key moments of the season which he sent in as a comment and reply to Chris.

MONACO: where this muddle started. Team orders were issued (to slow down) to preserve the engine for the next race (when Alonso, after 2nd pit stop had a +10sec advantage on Hamilton and close to 1 min on Massa). Alonso limited his car rpm down to 17000 rpm. Hamilton "failed" to listen and his complaint initiated an FIA investigation. No foul play. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

INDIANAPOLIS: No orders were given to reduce rpms. Alonso was undoubtedly faster than Hamilton. Alonso tried just once to overtake Hamilton. Failed, but his reaction in the following lap suggested that maybe, just maybe, he was stopped from trying again by team orders. At least this would have been the consensus amongst English press should that have happened the other way round!! Alonso did not "request" the FIA to investigate what to everyone's eyes was more suspicious than what had "happened" in MONACO. Yes, Hamilton won the US GP (but Alonso outpaced Hamilton there!)And this includes all way throughout Q1, Q2 and Q3, until the very last extra flying lap (as also occurred previously in Canada).And we know that this season, apart from when there is a mechanical failure or significant human error, P1 is equivalent to victory (that's why enjoying that extra flying lap in Q3 is soooo important - with less fuel)

MAGNY-COURS: mechanical problems for Alonso with the gear change system and suspension hydraulics or electronics. I can't remember now. No foul play. Probably bad luck?. Hamilton faster than Alonso!

SILVERSTONE: pole for Hamilton (this was clearly planned to satisfy British supporters). We know what happened after. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

NURBURGRING: Hamilton's incident. Alonso had the same problem with his car. Only he was luckier. I could not compare performances as Hamilton may have been physically in a poorer condition. But I have to give Alonso the benefit of the doubt in this one. Alonso faster than Hamilton!

HUNGARORING: the second incident. Naughty boys (both Hamilton and Alonso)! Alonso actually was faster when he did his best lap (faster than Hamilton with same fuel loads). Of course, Hamilton intentions were to steal Alonso's extra lap knowing than P1= Victory in here. He wanted to enjoy that extra flying lap (and with less fuel load) so it was likely he could have improved Alonso's lap. But on equal levels of fuel Alonso was faster. And do not forget, it was Alonso’s turn to enjoy the extra flying lap (Hamilton prevented him from doing so). FIA sanction absolutely inappropriate. Hamilton should now have 2 points less and Alonso 5 more (as surely Alonso would have won that race and Hamilton would have finished 2nd or third). Unfortunately for Alonso, the "judges" were a British, a German and a Chinese (it is like having an English referee in the World Cup Final between England and Spain - biased decision!). Curiously same British guy that investigated the Japanese SC mess.

TURKEY: relatively bad luck for Hamilton. Maybe he was pushing too hard and not looking after his tyres properly. Relatively because luckily for him, the tyre burst two or three corners before pit entry so he was able to finish 5th. However, Hamilton was faster!

MONZA: Alonso faster. As simple as that!

SPA: Alonso faster. As simple as that! Poisonous strategy (Hamilton 5 extra laps 2nd stint). Not investigated by FIA. Hamilton's lack of speed prevented him from overtaking Alonso. Naughty Ron .

JAPAN: Alonso's accident. Difficult weather conditions! Erratic driving behind SC. FIA does not sanction Hamilton. Abnormal real tyre pressures after 1st pit stop. Overinflation. However, let's say that Hamilton was faster than Alonso, and luckier!

CHINA: Alonso faster than Hamilton, except Q3 by 0.6 sec! Tyre pressures used in Q3 appear to be overheated causing increase of pressure, measured at 1.5 psi - normally 0.2 psi. Max Mosley and FIA are aware of this and highly suspicious. Foul play, however, would be difficult to prove. Hamilton faster in Q3, but is that real or due to some sort of manipulation? The race as expected. From P1 usually you will maintain the momentum (independently of who you are). Poor tyre treatment: Hamilton was clearly abusing intermediate tyres, driving over dried tarmac, overheating and gradually destroying them. Yes, you get more speed that way but the life span greatly diminishes. And he paid for it. Bad luck, though.

FINALLY: There have been circuits were Alonso has been clearly faster during free practice, Q1, Q2 and most of Q3 until the very last lap, when Hamilton with the extra flying lap (less fuel, do not forget) has secured P1 –. The Team, since Canada, has been clearly helping strategically Hamilton's interests and Alonso is not stupid and realises that. One now wonders whether a “magic” hand has been playing little tricks on Alonso. Nothing surprises me these days.

CONCLUSION: Maybe everybody was expecting Alonso to run easily away with the title. However, once the Team realised that Hamilton was very good, strategy changed to silently benefit/favour the McLaren breed driver. Proof for this is that the number of extra flying laps that Hamilton has enjoyed is 7 against 2 of Alonso (at the beginning of the season). And after Brazil it surely will be 8 against 2. And we know that overtaking is not easy these days (so there are huge team interests on securing P1, and surely this is the aim of McLaren for Hamilton in Brazil). This can be achieved by giving Hamilton once more the extra flying lap and if he struggles, maybe overcooking certain drivers rubber.

Equality is a nice word, but from now on it sounds to me like pathological thinking coming from Ron's mouth.

I just can’t imagine how difficult it has been for Alonso to keep focused (and I could extend on the psychological war launched by McLaren against Alonso after Monza, including Hamilton's comments (always under the protection of Ron).

If you ask me, I would love to see Kimi Raikonnen getting this one. But if Alonso wins, no doubt it will be a great and well-deserved achievement. Frankly, if Kimi fails, I would enjoy Alonso clinching this one.

I do not trust Ron, I do not trust McLaren, I do not trust Hamilton.
And the last stupid comments (by Ron Dennis) reinforce my well established, deep-rooted opinion.

And yes, I support Ferrari (and luckily for me, I even drive one)

Brazil, here I come!!

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Re: hamilton vs alonso article, your've gotta read this!

Post by z06_23_45 » 11 Oct 2007, 22:06

I just don't believe it could be summed up any better. :T:@ :T:@

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Re: hamilton vs alonso article, your've gotta read this!

Post by dazmoffman » 12 Oct 2007, 15:50

Wow bias much, he clearly is a ferrrari fan, so alonso been faster than hamilton..........................................................and.......................................................ooooooooh i get it another conspiracy.
somebody call the fbi.

FBI get the FBI somebody this blokes got another story for the FBI

i really had to read that article this bloke speaks the truth wow the world is a safer place now.

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Re: hamilton vs alonso article, your've gotta read this!

Post by megasyxx » 12 Oct 2007, 17:56

it's his opinion, i very much respect it..... :@:2 :@:2 :@:2 :@:2 :@:2 :@:2 :@:2 :@:2 $peace $peace $peace $peace $peace $peace $peace $peace
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Re: hamilton vs alonso article, your've gotta read this!

Post by WDC » 12 Oct 2007, 23:50

great article...
i particularl like and feel the same as his last comments about the trust...
"I do not trust Ron, I do not trust McLaren, I do not trust Hamilton."

Go Kimi! !yahoo:
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Re: hamilton vs alonso article, your've gotta read this!

Post by newtrex » 13 Oct 2007, 02:59

CHINA: Alonso faster than Hamilton, except Q3 by 0.6 sec! Tyre pressures used in Q3 appear to be overheated causing increase of pressure, measured at 1.5 psi - normally 0.2 psi. Max Mosley and FIA are aware of this and highly suspicious. Foul play, however, would be difficult to prove. Hamilton faster in Q3, but is that real or due to some sort of manipulation? The race as expected. From P1 usually you will maintain the momentum (independently of who you are). Poor tyre treatment: Hamilton was clearly abusing intermediate tyres, driving over dried tarmac, overheating and gradually destroying them. Yes, you get more speed that way but the life span greatly diminishes. And he paid for it. Bad luck, though.


this is amazing....
amazing article... but enough said

Go kimi, Go ferrari
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Re: hamilton vs alonso article, your've gotta read this!

Post by devereux » 13 Oct 2007, 06:12

i feel sorry for alonso, but i like hamilton too, i think hamilton just drives the car and doesnt ask for favourtism, the team just does it subconsciously or sumthin along those lines. when alonso leaves the team i would like hamilton to say how much alonso was mistreated at mclaren, just like senna said with andretti.

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Re: hamilton vs alonso article, your've gotta read this!

Post by WDC » 14 Oct 2007, 07:12

devereux wrote:i feel sorry for alonso, but i like hamilton too, i think hamilton just drives the car and doesnt ask for favourtism, the team just does it subconsciously or sumthin along those lines.


i think youve got your hamilton glasses on...

devereux wrote:when alonso leaves the team i would like hamilton to say how much alonso was mistreated at mclaren, just like senna said with andretti.


we both know that will never ever happen! i think hamilton loves his number 1 status!
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Re: hamilton vs alonso article, your've gotta read this!

Post by MrReasonable » 14 Oct 2007, 09:55

Im looking forward to Alonso moving teams next year so garbage like this can be put to rest. And so Im not a hypocrite, I didnt agree with Alonsos penalty in Hungary. It was a team matter, and should have been settled as such. In any case, Hamilton will dominate Alonso's Renault/Ferrari/Red Bull/Toyota or whatever he chooses to drive in 08.

I cant resist, there are some things here that are just wrong.

A quick glance at the results this year shows that P1 is far from a guaranteed race win. Yes, it is a significant advantage, but case in point, Kimi has won more races this year outside of pole than he has from P1. And Alonso is only 50% from P1. So clearly the word "guarantee" is an overstatement.

SILVERSTONE: pole for Hamilton (this was clearly planned to satisfy British supporters). Any evidence to back this up?

The whole Hungaroring section sickens me. The quote "Unfortunately for Alonso, the "judges" were a British, a German and a Chinese (it is like having an English referee in the World Cup Final between England and Spain - biased decision!). Curiously same British guy that investigated the Japanese SC mess." So you're implying that based on nationality these people cannot possibly do the jobs they have no doubt earned over years of work? Retarded logic.

Any case this person is trying to make is drowned out in apologism, conjecture and speculation.

Hope your Ferrari throws a rod.
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Re: hamilton vs alonso article, your've gotta read this!

Post by iceman1 » 14 Oct 2007, 15:08

Especially in the UK, the media have spun things against Fernando recently, but the season hasn't boosted his reputation as a man

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Re: hamilton vs alonso article, your've gotta read this!

Post by WDC » 15 Oct 2007, 07:05

MrReasonable wrote:The whole Hungaroring section sickens me. The quote "Unfortunately for Alonso, the "judges" were a British, a German and a Chinese (it is like having an English referee in the World Cup Final between England and Spain - biased decision!). Curiously same British guy that investigated the Japanese SC mess." So you're implying that based on nationality these people cannot possibly do the jobs they have no doubt earned over years of work? Retarded logic.


its just a conflictof interest! it should never be that way just in case!
its the same way that in soccer (football) the reffs are never the nationality of the nations playing! simple as that!
doesnt matter how fair or good a steward or refferee can be they just shouldnt be allowed to make desicions on a fellow countryman!

and like in this case with hamilton, maybe it was a unbias disicion but:
a) we cn never proove that and,
b) it was almost certainly going to raise suspision over the desicion when it was known that a brit chose not to penalise a fellow brit!
same way an italian shouldnt make desicions on ferrari's penalties!
Thankyou Schumi you will always have a place in our hearts!
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Re: hamilton vs alonso article, your've gotta read this!

Post by sejtur » 15 Oct 2007, 15:08

Good read. I didn't follow the McLaren saga closely, so this article clears most stuff up.
There could be some mistakes in it, but it sounds pretty reliable.
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False Agenda

Post by lmcsp » 15 Oct 2007, 22:50

Very good article .. although there are a few members on this site that would strongly disagree ..hehe, but I dont

But hey, I just had a fleeting thought after reading through some stuff on P-F1 ..

Do any of you think that Mclaren, possibly and I mean possibly, hired Alonso as WDC only to have ham beat him .. ? to show that their "golden boy" is "better than alonso"?

Now, I dont want to go in too deep here, but - surely Alonso, when he signed, was promised the world .. then .. not ..
All I have heard macca say this year is equality this equality that - now I am not sure and I might be wrong, but, did anyone see equality between Hakkinen & Coulthard? Raikkonen & Coulthard? Raikkonen & Montoya? - There has, well at least for the last few previous years, ALWAYS been a number#1 at macca ..

Long story short:
I think, mclaren hired Alonso so they could beat him in their own "team"
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Re: False Agenda

Post by WDC » 16 Oct 2007, 11:36

lmcsp wrote:did anyone see equality between Hakkinen & Coulthard? Raikkonen & Coulthard? Raikkonen & Montoya? - There has, well at least for the last few previous years, ALWAYS been a number#1 at macca ..

Long story short:
I think, mclaren hired Alonso so they could beat him in their own "team"


that is a point which i havebeen thinking of all along... hakkinen was number 1 over coulthard, kimi wasnumber one over coulthard and montoya! there was never any equality, maybe at th start of the season but not during it!

your theory on alonso being hired only to be put in his place is a bit far fetched but, to be honest probably shouldnt b ruled out...

i think i could believe anything with what mclaren has been like this year!
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Re: hamilton vs alonso article, your've gotta read this!

Post by MrReasonable » 17 Oct 2007, 03:37

WDC wrote:
MrReasonable wrote:The whole Hungaroring section sickens me. The quote "Unfortunately for Alonso, the "judges" were a British, a German and a Chinese (it is like having an English referee in the World Cup Final between England and Spain - biased decision!). Curiously same British guy that investigated the Japanese SC mess." So you're implying that based on nationality these people cannot possibly do the jobs they have no doubt earned over years of work? Retarded logic.


its just a conflictof interest! it should never be that way just in case!
its the same way that in soccer (football) the reffs are never the nationality of the nations playing! simple as that!
doesnt matter how fair or good a steward or refferee can be they just shouldnt be allowed to make desicions on a fellow countryman!

and like in this case with hamilton, maybe it was a unbias disicion but:
a) we cn never proove that and,
b) it was almost certainly going to raise suspision over the desicion when it was known that a brit chose not to penalise a fellow brit!
same way an italian shouldnt make desicions on ferrari's penalties!



Well, first off the 2 most powerful men in F1 are Brits, and they just fined Macca 100m and took all the constructor points. Not a lot of national favoritism there. And I think the analogy about the World Cup final is a bit extreme. Comparing an event that happens once every four years with one that happens 17-19 times a year? Plus, its easier to find a ref that is not the nationality of two teams, much harder to find one that has no national ties to 11 teams. Well, i suppose they could hire Americans. :T:@
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