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 Post subject: Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2007, 14:29  
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Its wierd how the court works. Guilty but not punished because of not enough evidence, but they got to the fact of finding them guilty. Wierd. I hope this is how it finishes, because then we and the teams can concentrate on the close championship they have. I will be a crime to punish the drivers for a team mistake.

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 Post subject: Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2007, 15:35  
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it's so sad that other teams, the fia and the fans got dragged into this mess created by ferrari. all of these are because of the politics and bulls** within the ferrari organization.

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 Post subject: Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2007, 16:18  
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I agree that the verdict is c**p. Even worse, the FIA left the door open so this could rear up again later. With Ferrari's anger, no doubt they're not done with this. I think the decision was influenced by not wanting to screw up an exciting championship with a new, emerging star.
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 Post subject: Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2007, 11:29  
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Everybody says how if McLaren was taken out of the championship how disappointed people would be / no one would watch.
Well, the FIA did reserve the option to call McLaren back into question if they find reason to believe the information Coughlan had was used to benefit McLaren in the championship.
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 Post subject: Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2007, 18:45  
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Todt said McLaren had asked Coughlan to tell Stepney not to send any more information but added:

"It is a shame that before this, Coughlan asked him for information on our brake balance system, then went to lunch with him in Spain, before calmly returning home with 780 pages of designs, diagrams, data and a whole lot more." ''hmm''

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 Post subject: Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2007, 21:19  
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Briatore baffled by FIA verdict

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Renault team chief Flavio Briatore admitted he was baffled by the FIA World Motor Sport Council decision yesterday to apply no penalty to McLaren despite finding them guilty of unauthorised possession of Ferrari documents.

The WMSC found McLaren to be in breach of article 151c of the International Sporting Code but said there was insufficient evidence to suggest McLaren had used the confidential Ferrari information "in such a way as to interfere improperly with the FIA Formula One World Championship."

Briatore said found the mixed decision baffling, and compared it to Pontius Pilate, who famously washed his hands off the decision to crucify Jesus Christ.

"I don't understand what happened," Briatore told Gazzetta dello Sport, "because to begin with you would only gather the World Council if you had proof. Otherwise, if you don't have proof, you avoid such a meeting.

"So I don't understand what happened: if the FIA admits to have established possession of Ferrari material by McLaren, then why is there no retribution? This verdict reminds me of Pontius Pilate."

Briatore also said the entire affair has been damaging to Formula One as a whole, but he empathised with Ferrari's frustration over the verdict.

"These weeks we've all heard and read what happened, and surely this story has been very damaging for the business of Formula One, also considering the great media exposure it has had," the Italian said.

"If someone had some advantage from the possession of the material, it would have been fair for him to pay the consequences. Besides, I too would have liked to know Ferrari's weight distribution...

"I spoke on the phone with [Ferrari chief] Jean Todt, and he sounded very bitter. I also understand [Ferrari president Luca] di Montezemolo's anger."
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 Post subject: Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren
PostPosted: 28 Jul 2007, 21:47  
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Well its not too hard to baffle Flavio he usually is !grin! but I see what he means, thats why I love him so :p ...
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 Post subject: Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2007, 10:28  
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Now it has finally emerged how Coughlan received the Ferrari papers....

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!grin! !grin!

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 Post subject: Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2007, 16:11  
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Mosley refers McLaren-Ferrari case to Court of Appeal

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The World Motor Sport Council’s (WMSC) decision not to sanction McLaren for possessing Ferrari data could yet be overturned after FIA President Max Mosley referred the case to the Court of Appeal on Tuesday.

It follows a plea by the Italian Automobile Club and Italian Motor Sport Commission (ACI-CSAI) on Ferrari’s behalf and means the team will now be able to formally present evidence in the case - something they were unable to do at last Thursday’s hearing.

In a letter to Mosley, ACI-CSAI President Luigi Macaluso said the body could not comprehend how McLaren had not received a penalty, given the Council’s findings that the team had indeed breached the International Sporting Code. He also implied that the result might have been different, had Ferrari been able to give evidence.

In response, Mosley admitted that there had been “suspicious elements” in McLaren’s defence, but agreed with the Council that these elements did not constitute proof of wrongdoing. However, in light of Ferrari’s lack of representation and the importance of the case, Mosley agreed to refer it to the Court of Appeal.

Replying to Macaluso, he said: “Your letter suggests that the outcome may have been different if the Council had given Ferrari further opportunities to be heard beyond those that were in fact offered.

"Because of this and the importance of public confidence in the outcome, I will send this matter to the FIA Court of Appeal under Article 23.1 of the FIA Statutes with a request that the Court hear both Ferrari and McLaren and any other Championship competitor who so requests and determine whether the decision of the WMSC was appropriate and, if not, substitute such other decision as may be just.”

A date for the appeal has not yet been announced.


http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/7/6561.html

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is this to avert ferrari launching civil legal action?
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 Post subject: Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2007, 16:23  
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Joined: 27 Jul 2007, 23:21
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I just wish this would all be over and done with it's becoming boring and stale :) i also think this will get more bitter if ferrari are not handed the constructors title.
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 Post subject: Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2007, 16:27  
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Here's a few Favours the FIA have given Ferrari in the past though (Thanks-Klyster)

1998 Brazil: Judgement against previously cleared McLaren braking system simply based on race stewards' judgement

1998 Silverstone: Overturning a stop-a-go penalty against Schumacher for overtaking under yellow

1998 Austria: Allowing Irvine to move over for Schumacher despite ruling against such behaviour after the Melbourne 1998 race

1999 Sepang: Overturning Ferrari disqualifications for the Sepang race. Allowing Schumacher to drive unsportingly by brake-testing Hakkinen

2000 Brazil: Disqualifying DC for similar infringement to Sepang 1999 measurement-fiasco, and not disqualifying Schumacher & Co for plank-wear incident

2000: Outlawing McLaren's energy-storage system

2000 Spa: Outlawing McLaren's previously approved torque-bias(?) differential

2001 first four races: Supposedly allowing Ferrari to run a system simulating traction control by superfast gearshifting
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 Post subject: Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2007, 18:53  
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in my opinion, mclaren is just dragged along in this crazy stuff.....as i've said there are certain disgruntled individuals over at ferrari, and here's what nigel had to say:

He said he only thought about joining a band of disgruntled Ferrari employees who wanted to defect to another team after his relationship with boss Jean Todt began to break down.

"It would have been led by my friend Ross Brawn," Stepney said.

He also revealed that he has accepted a new job outside of the sport, categorically ruling out joining McLaren after being labelled a 'McLaren informer' by Ferrari's Italian lawyers.

He said: "I do not like Ron Dennis. I met him only once and he suggested that I work for him."


maybe...just maybe (although nigel had already dismissed) that these certain disgruntled individuals might defect to mclaren -- including ross brawn

just my opinion..... :T:@

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 Post subject: Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2007, 19:22  
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Well, if none of these 780 pages were used on mclaren there is no reason to punish them at all!

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 Post subject: Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2007, 22:17  
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reyhan wrote:
Well, if none of these 780 pages were used on mclaren there is no reason to punish them at all!



^^^ My sentiments exactly. (clap clap)
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 Post subject: Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2007, 11:09  
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hmm, very interesting comments from everybody .. although ..

I feel that alot of you are missing the whole point [the ones that agree with the verdict]

.. at the end of day, they [macca] had/has the complete DNA of the F2007 - How on earth can that not help them develop their own car?

They'd by now know every weakness and strength of the F2007 performance and would surely be able to set their MP4-22 up to compete against it in certain conditions - they certainly wouldn't need to duplicate any parts, just simply enhance their own.

I find it utterly ridiculous that the FIA came to that decision - although - I can see why .. have a look at this ridiculous take on it here

having said all that, Ferrari will have the last laugh when Kimi beats 'em on the track

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