Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

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newtrex
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Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

Post by newtrex » 13 Sep 2007, 09:38

ok... 9 30am UK time??
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iceman1
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Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

Post by iceman1 » 13 Sep 2007, 11:10

yeah 9.30 GMT.
Guess who didn't show up at the courts today.... http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62300
Said by Andy Warhols Twin Brother
"I am sure we will see justice here today."

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Bobdredds
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Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

Post by Bobdredds » 13 Sep 2007, 13:02

http://f1.automoto365.com/news/controll ... s_id=27752

This just out on Automoto365, the site run by Nicholas Todd, son of Jean and manager of Massa so I guess the source is reliable.

If the above is true then McLaren are screwed. 30 emails between Alonso, PDLR and Paddy Lowe with Ferrari classified information, including race stratagies, is too much to ignore. The only question is what penalty.

Ciao Bob

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Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

Post by newtrex » 13 Sep 2007, 13:15

wow
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Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

Post by iceman1 » 13 Sep 2007, 13:23

Marca.com is reporting that FIA sources are telling them Fernando & Lewis could lose 10 to 20 points and Mclaren 10 to 50 points.

http://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/portadafm1.html

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JoostLamers
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Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

Post by JoostLamers » 13 Sep 2007, 14:28

latest news is that the McLaren drivers won't be punished, and...

Renault has admitted that they have used data from McLaren on the R27
<<<The flag Lew1s waved at
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Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

Post by raikks » 13 Sep 2007, 14:31

Well what can I say ... 1st of all, I couldn't imagine a worse come-back for Ross Brown than the one he did today. R.Brown is a huge disappointment for me, I thought that Ferrari will be in safe hand after Yogi Bear will leave.

The biggest surprise of all is that F.Alonso is missing. How could the McLarens be half a second faster with the data Ferrari had used 6-7-8-.. months ago? And in the end Ferrari, with their date and some time to upgrade the car, are still behind them "half a second". I am confident that McLaren will be okay after this scandal. They proved once they didn't use that data, so things should be clear.

If McLaren is punished, than FIA will be in some dirty c**p. No action was taken after some similar -- in a way or another -- scandals like: Ferrari's over-sized deflectors at Sepang in 1999 -- here I may not remember very well, if someone knows more please correct me -- or Toyota-Ferrari spy scandal a few years ago.

McLaren has the fastest car because they have the Technology Center and the best engineers in F1. And above all, the healthiest mentality.

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Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

Post by raikks » 13 Sep 2007, 14:53

F.Alonso is scheduled to participate at the press conference !grin! ... so no need to worry of a deliberate skip.

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Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

Post by iceman1 » 13 Sep 2007, 15:00

Image
:p :p

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raikks
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Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

Post by raikks » 13 Sep 2007, 15:07

iceman1 wrote:Image

Nice photo $peace

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Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

Post by Bobdredds » 13 Sep 2007, 15:30

raikks wrote:F.Alonso is scheduled to participate at the press conference !grin! ... so no need to worry of a deliberate skip.

Regardless of what you say if the information was used and discussed by McLaren, including race stratagies, if even for only one race, then they are guilty and must be punished by the same lofty ideals you quote here.

Previously McLaren only admitted to a couple of emails and only a couple of people knew about it and this seems to be a lie either informed or inadvertanly it is still lie. It shows that McLaren cant be trusted at the very least because they dont know what their employees are doing and therefore dont know themselves. That is the kindest interpetation I can come up with and even that warrants a penalty.

I think that to remove McLaren from this years and next years championships would be a big mistake however a points penalty would make it more interesting if it was say 20 points from the team and drivers. After all at least one of their drivers seems to be involved. Honour would be satisfied and the final say would be on the track. We the spectators would win in the end because imagine the competion on the track.

Regardless of bias the result of this is to send a message that teams need to monitor their employees activities and while a certain amount of information is always going to be mobile, the complete dossier of a teams car, development and stratagies is much more than that and for anyone to sugest otherwise or minimise the seriousness of it either doesnt know what they are talking about or is lying.

Try taking the names Ferrari and McLaren out of the picture and examine the case within the rules of the FIA and see what conclusion you come to or reverse the names and see what you McLaren guys would be saying if the shoe was on the other foot. The problem here is more fundemental than ferrari or mclaren handbags at dawn, information flows more freely today than ever before and most techies are up to date with it and that what created this saga. Before if you were pissed off you went to the pub, today you contact a fellow associate in another team for a bit of devilish mischief in extreme cases.

For these reasons McLaren cannot be exonerated IMHO.

Ciao Bob

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Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

Post by iceman1 » 13 Sep 2007, 15:34

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62312

By Steve Cooper Thursday, September 13th 2007, 14:57 GMT

The World Motor Sport Council has decided to exclude McLaren-Mercedes from the 2007 and 2008 Formula One world championship.

More details to follow shortly...

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

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Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

Post by Bobdredds » 13 Sep 2007, 15:35

raikks wrote:Well what can I say ... 1st of all, I couldn't imagine a worse come-back for Ross Brown than the one he did today. R.Brown is a huge disappointment for me, I thought that Ferrari will be in safe hand after Yogi Bear will leave.

The biggest surprise of all is that F.Alonso is missing. How could the McLarens be half a second faster with the data Ferrari had used 6-7-8-.. months ago? And in the end Ferrari, with their date and some time to upgrade the car, are still behind them "half a second". I am confident that McLaren will be okay after this scandal. They proved once they didn't use that data, so things should be clear.

If McLaren is punished, than FIA will be in some dirty c**p. No action was taken after some similar -- in a way or another -- scandals like: Ferrari's over-sized deflectors at Sepang in 1999 -- here I may not remember very well, if someone knows more please correct me -- or Toyota-Ferrari spy scandal a few years ago.

McLaren has the fastest car because they have the Technology Center and the best engineers in F1. And above all, the healthiest mentality.

egardless of what you say if the information was used and discussed by McLaren, including race stratagies, if even for only one race, then they are guilty and must be punished by the same lofty ideals you quote here.

Previously McLaren only admitted to a couple of emails and only a couple of people knew about it and this seems to be a lie either informed or inadvertanly it is still lie. It shows that McLaren cant be trusted at the very least because they dont know what their employees are doing and therefore dont know themselves. That is the kindest interpetation I can come up with and even that warrants a penalty.

I think that to remove McLaren from this years and next years championships would be a big mistake however a points penalty would make it more interesting if it was say 20 points from the team and drivers. After all at least one of their drivers seems to be involved. Honour would be satisfied and the final say would be on the track. We the spectators would win in the end because imagine the competion on the track.

Regardless of bias the result of this is to send a message that teams need to monitor their employees activities and while a certain amount of information is always going to be mobile, the complete dossier of a teams car, development and stratagies is much more than that and for anyone to sugest otherwise or minimise the seriousness of it either doesnt know what they are talking about or is lying.

Try taking the names Ferrari and McLaren out of the picture and examine the case within the rules of the FIA and see what conclusion you come to or reverse the names and see what you McLaren guys would be saying if the shoe was on the other foot. The problem here is more fundemental than ferrari or mclaren handbags at dawn, information flows more freely today than ever before and most techies are up to date with it and that what created this saga. Before if you were pissed off you went to the pub, today you contact a fellow associate in another team for a bit of devilish mischief in extreme cases.

For these reasons McLaren cannot be exonerated IMHO.

Ciao Bob

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Bobdredds
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Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

Post by Bobdredds » 13 Sep 2007, 15:39

iceman1 wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62312

By Steve Cooper Thursday, September 13th 2007, 14:57 GMT

The World Motor Sport Council has decided to exclude McLaren-Mercedes from the 2007 and 2008 Formula One world championship.

More details to follow shortly...

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Are you sure, I cant log on to Autosport.

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Re: Espionage at Ferrari and McLaren

Post by iceman1 » 13 Sep 2007, 15:40

Bobdredds wrote:
iceman1 wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62312

By Steve Cooper Thursday, September 13th 2007, 14:57 GMT

The World Motor Sport Council has decided to exclude McLaren-Mercedes from the 2007 and 2008 Formula One world championship.

More details to follow shortly...

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Are you sure, I cant log on to Autosport.

here 2
http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/09/ ... -and-2008/

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