Jenson Looking to '08

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WOT Now
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Post by WOT Now » 18 Jun 2007, 15:38

They not only lost Willis but also Wilhem Toet to BMW last year and Simon Lacey to McLaren over the 2007 preseason - both competent aerodynamicists and obviously Lacey is helping McLaren this year.


Big test coming up this week at Silverstone on the B car . Wonder what they changed ?


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From the talk about the 2007 Bridgestones so far, the rears are wearing faster than expected (grain and then come back in about 17-18 laps at Indy) and the fronts don't give any "support" (construction-wise) like the Michelins on braking and turn in (braking stability & turn in consistency) - both cannot be fixed by suspension geometry changes alone and need proper aero compensation (e.g. McLaren's front wing upper bridge element introduced at Catalunya).


If you check the databases for publicly quoted wheelbases, the RA106 had 2 wheelbases over the 2006 season and the second step to 3140 mm resulted in a wheelbase that is longer than the F2007's 3135 mm (same as the Super Aguri SA07 at 3135 mm btw) ! This would suggest that the RA107 is even longer than the RA106. Reports say that it's not the mechanical longitudinal transfer effect of the wheelbase that is the rationale behind its choice but the ability to move the center of gravity (by ballast) and the ability to package the aero around the rear better (more compact) to allow better balance (center of pressure).


Clearly, McLaren, Ferrari, and BMW understand how to get more pace out of the car by inducing more oversteer without wearing out the rears faster than the other teams.


Renault is starting to understand it judging by Heikki's Indy performance against the BMW's (on a low downforce configuration track though).

The answer is NOT to go back to the RA106 if you look at the Aguri's consistent relative pace to the leaders .

We'll see if Honda has figured out the packaging needed to work with these Bridgestones at Silverstone or this will be , as Rubens said after went off at Indy, a long season to forget for Honda fans.


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Post by Bowsey » 18 Jun 2007, 16:47

yes WOT Now, this is all true, very well said. But also you have to talk about Honda's stragegy. I mean pitting Barrichello 7 laps before the end, rather than pitting him in the safety car stage was a big mistake. Honda always seem bad on stragegies
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Post by WOT Now » 18 Jun 2007, 17:08

not only the Montreal botch job but also the Monaco strategy call was a bit baffling as well.

even if they came in on the last safety car period when the pit lane was open, I don't think it would have changed the end result for Rubens though.

if they were waiting for a sub 17 lap stint with the Super Softs at Montreal, it shows you how bad the RA107 is at eating up the rear tyres compared to the others.

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Post by phillyred79 » 18 Jun 2007, 20:39

It's just an engineering snafu really.. Because, what looks good on paper and in testing doesn't always make sense on the track!

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Post by pocketrocket » 19 Jun 2007, 07:38

its a long climb to the top for honda, they must pick some points or else this will be the most embarasing season for honda :shock:

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Post by Ace » 19 Jun 2007, 21:20

Tomorrow they will test RA107 "B", today they let Super Aguri folks to clean the track... I have read reports and they said that thid will be a big step. Chassis will be changed, new suspension geometry goes up. Aero package will be cruical... and I really hoping for new modern double front wing. Now, they are about 1 second behind McLaren so if they made jump of 0,7-1,0 second that will be great result. Button have hunch that this "B" version will be big change. So, from his words we could tell if they are up or not.

Hoping that dr. Owen from BMW is in charge now... improvement, improvment, faster, faster. :D

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Post by modbaraban » 19 Jun 2007, 23:02

Ace wrote:Now, they are about 1 second behind McLaren so if they made jump of 0,7-1,0 second that will be great result. Button have hunch that this "B" version will be big change.

Sorry, but that's too much of a wishful thinking... Even Ferari are struggling to make SUCH a HUGE (yes, it's huge for 2007) leap forward.

Working in Paul Ricard before Monaco GP they already revised the sidepods massively (a rip-off from MP4-22 obviously) for RA107, and all they achieved is matching SAF1's pace
(sometimes :lol: )

Honda should get better of course, but I won't expect a magic comeback this season... unless they gonna use their secret weapon... the power dumbo :lol:

To add to that they got some typical Japanese F1 management issues this year...

...and are turning from a legendary team to an environmentally happy, production friendly... another (as Murray Walker used to say) Toy-ota...

That's a shame really.

to put it all in a few words:
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cheers
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Post by Ace » 20 Jun 2007, 12:26

modbaraban wrote:
Ace wrote:Now, they are about 1 second behind McLaren so if they made jump of 0,7-1,0 second that will be great result. Button have hunch that this "B" version will be big change.

Sorry, but that's too much of a wishful thinking... Even Ferari are struggling to make SUCH a HUGE (yes, it's huge for 2007) leap forward.

Working in Paul Ricard before Monaco GP they already revised the sidepods massively (a rip-off from MP4-22 obviously) for RA107, and all they achieved is matching SAF1's pace
(sometimes :lol: )

Honda should get better of course, but I won't expect a magic comeback this season... unless they gonna use their secret weapon... the power dumbo :lol:

To add to that they got some typical Japanese F1 management issues this year...

...and are turning from a legendary team to an environmentally happy, production friendly... another (as Murray Walker used to say) Toy-ota...

That's a shame really.

cheers


They made 0,5 improvement with McLaren style sidepods. Issues are the lack of aerodinamicst and leading the team by none japanese man. SA is prof that team works better if japanese man is on the course.

Honda is environmental friendly since they exist... in earth project isn't a bad thing... but for my opinion to I don't like it. Honda best years will stay with McLaren... whatever this means :lol:

And about improvement, I didn't say that they will make improvement over 1 second with new car I just said that I WOULD LIKE. Yellow_Colorz_PDT_21 Yellow_Colorz_PDT_29

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Post by modbaraban » 20 Jun 2007, 14:38

Ace wrote:SA is prof that team works better if japanese man is on the course.

I didn't mean the natianality but the management style. Mr. (Super) Aguri Suzuki runs the team like a real leader, the way successful F1 teams are managed for years. He's the boss. David Richards has always been the boss in BAR (ever since he was appointed of coarse). Look at Flavio and other team bosses.
Now look at current Honda or Toy-ota management :? That's completely different approach... mass prodoction management style never worked in F1 and I doubt it ever will...
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Post by megasyxx » 20 Jun 2007, 15:03

honda had great times before with mclaren in the 80's, let's hope they'll get their act together so the fans can enjoy good races with more top teams, not just mclaren vs ferrari, mclaren vs mclaren, or ferrari vs ferrari
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Post by Ace » 20 Jun 2007, 15:10

modbaraban wrote:
Ace wrote:SA is prof that team works better if japanese man is on the course.

I didn't mean the natianality but the management style. Mr. (Super) Aguri Suzuki runs the team like a real leader, the way successful F1 teams are managed for years. He's the boss. David Richards has always been the boss in BAR (ever since he was appointed of coarse). Look at Flavio and other team bosses.
Now look at current Honda or Toy-ota management :? That's completely different approach... mass prodoction management style never worked in F1 and I doubt it ever will...


Yea, that's partly true. But for my opinion there are japanese people in HRC corp. that can make that kinda approach work in F1. In MotoGP it works for years. Honda don't need to change thier approach, they need to change people in leadership, there is a lack of strong leadership... and one of the Honda's weakest links are chassis development. Honda never had a great aero man in a row and their people don't have experience and stability at that area like Renault, Ferrari, and McLaren have... I could say BMW to becouse they manage to solve team structure right form the start. And I don't think that Renault way of work is that much differnet form Honda's, the difference is that they have a man as leader who know what he is doing and Honda don't have.

So there is a bit of everyting going wrong trought years... I can remember a bunch of people with personal objectives workni in B.A.R Honda and Craig Pollock is one of them... the situation with Nick Fry now isn't differnet to much.

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Post by reyhan » 20 Jun 2007, 18:08

The pure example of how to run a team is a SUPER dr MARIO himself, gone to Williams for 5 years, see what's good in a champion team, see what's bad in it also, make a great engine and gather the right personel around the car, you just get all the pieces in and in a year or two go for a title, somehow sounds that simple in BMW team 8)
BMW Power

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Post by donald29 » 20 Jun 2007, 18:25

reyhan wrote:The pure example of how to run a team is a SUPER dr MARIO himself, gone to Williams for 5 years, see what's good in a champion team, see what's bad in it also, make a great engine and gather the right personel around the car, you just get all the pieces in and in a year or two go for a title, somehow sounds that simple in BMW team 8)


Completely agreed. BMW are doing a great job.

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Post by modbaraban » 20 Jun 2007, 19:25

I always try to mention the second part of the team's name in this case... BMW.SAUBER... it's very important. Buying such a great team was the best way Mario could go.

Sauber had about everything already: experience, great team spirit, the right people working on the car, efficient management, the best wind tunnel in F1; and only lacked 2 things: proper funding, race winning experience. One problem solved. Winning races in on scedule now :)
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Post by donald29 » 20 Jun 2007, 19:48

modbaraban wrote:I always try to mention the second part of the team's name in this case... BMW.SAUBER... it's very important. Buying such a great team was the best way Mario could go.

Sauber had about everything already: experience, great team spirit, the right people working on the car, efficient management, the best wind tunnel in F1; and only lacked 2 things: proper funding, race winning experience. One problem solved. Winning races in on scedule now :)


Agreed again. BMW SAUBER are doing a great job!!

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