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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 17:06  
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lmcsp wrote:
Hey, just wanted to say, and I do know this is a wee bit off topic .. but let me get this straight

So if the lead driver was to spinout in the middle of the track, 20 meters from the line on the last lap, a crane could come and pick him up and get him out of danger and across the line?

No, of course not, that would be illegal... unless of course the driver in question is Hamilton. Then the race would be stopped on the same grounds of safety, and they would take the grid order from lap before !grin!
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 17:37  
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The race was entertaining, and I don't believe in conspiracy theories or anything like that, but from Massa's earlier stops (Plus the drivethrough penalty), he had a shorter time in the pits than Kimi did. When thinking that Ferrari were playing favourites with Kimi, I checked the earlier pit stops and saw that Massa indeed was in the pits for a shorter amount of time than Kimi. I would suggest you guys check it out because Massa only had a splash of fuel compared to Kimi who was in the pitstops for around 10 seconds. Also, if the radio channels were opened, Massa might have also been telling the team that he has problems with his tires or something like that. For now, I will reserve judgment on that issue. The penalties I admit were inconsistent, but I'm not going to say anything about that because the FIA works in mysterious ways!

As for Alonso, I'm glad he's getting beaten by Hamilton. I never liked Alonso a lot because of the way he became champion. Kimi had the fastest car on the field, won more, but at the same time, broke down a lot. Alonso never said that he won because Kimi broke down (Nurburgring 2005) or anything like that. He attributed his victory to tire strategy and the old "I'm so amazing" c**p. When Schumacher blew up in the penultimate race last year, Fernando didn't say that he won because Schumi blew up. Alonso is not honest and he's desperate to be the undisputed #1 at a team because of the fact that he's a double world champion.

Hamilton OTOH, is a team player, but he is also a rookie in a great car. Kimi earned my respect when he was able to deliver stunning drives and show that pole position did not always mean a race win. Hamilton had to start from pole every time this year in order to win, and still that wasn't the 100% determiner (Great Britain '07). I won't say that Lewis is great or Lewis is bad, I just think he has more to learn and being WDC this year might be more detrimental to him in the future simply because all he knows is how to drive a great car, not a sub-par car like Kimi in 2004 and 2006. When he can show that he can drive from the back of the field for a points paying position, I will have respect for Hamilton. I am neutral on Hamilton. I don't think he's amazing, considering all the hype, but I don't think he's terrible because he hasn't been in an inconsistent and unreliable car yet.

Massa is a great driver and a team player. He tries to show that he can be #1, and he's doing his best, especially when up against Kimi. He is more of a diplomat towards Kimi than Alonso is towards Hamilton. Massa can make childish mistakes, but he does his best not to repeat them, like Sepang of this year. Massa's great, but WDC, that's a big question mark for now.

Kimi is a more complete driver, but he can make mistakes, proving that he's not a machine! Kimi is on the end of two extremes: when he is good, he's amazing. When he's bad, he's terrible. I think that he can improve, and hopefully, he can work more with his team to iron out the gremlins that have been affecting him this year.

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 18:43  
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Silver Shadow wrote:
Hamilton OTOH, is a team player, but he is also a rookie in a great car.


Umm, yeah he difinatley proved he's a team player to me in Hungary this year, that was really team play at its finest !grin! !grin!
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 19:37  
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Lightning983 wrote:
Silver Shadow wrote:
Hamilton OTOH, is a team player, but he is also a rookie in a great car.


Umm, yeah he difinatley proved he's a team player to me in Hungary this year, that was really team play at its finest !grin! !grin!

Umm, if you read the rest of my post, you would have seen that "he has more to learn." In general, he is a team player just like the rest of the drivers are what I described them to be in general...

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 20:01  
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Silver Shadow wrote:
As for Alonso, I'm glad he's getting beaten by Hamilton. I never liked Alonso a lot because of the way he became champion. Kimi had the fastest car on the field, won more, but at the same time, broke down a lot. Alonso never said that he won because Kimi broke down (Nurburgring 2005) or anything like that. He attributed his victory to tire strategy and the old "I'm so amazing" c**p. When Schumacher blew up in the penultimate race last year, Fernando didn't say that he won because Schumi blew up. Alonso is not honest and he's desperate to be the undisputed #1 at a team because of the fact that he's a double world champion.


Oh FFS!!! How many times do I have to read these lies?

1. Alonso won exactly as many races as Kimi in 2005. Six each.

2. Alonso didn't become 2006 because MS engine blew up. Go ahead and do the maths, all things else being equal. Learn to add and subtract! So why on earth should Alonso say so? If Alonso hadn't lost a wheelnut in Hungary and blown up in Monza MS wouldn't have been anyway near him! Did MS ever mention anything about this? Of course not.

This is racing. Reliabilty is part of racing. To finish first you first have to finish. Like it or not. Alonso won both his championships well deserved, he didn't make any mistakes in 2006 (on the contrary to MS) and do you for one second believe that the McLaren of 2005 should have been equally fast if they'd made it more reliable? Car/engine design is always a compromise between performance and reliability and McLaren didn't get it right in 2005. Is that Alonso's fault?

You are perfectly entitled not to like Alonso, but don't give a lot of bad excuses for doing so.

He won in both 2005 & 2006 fair and square. Period.

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 23:01  
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It's perfectly fair to become world champion when the one more deserving blows up. However, it is unfair to say that you are amazing and not attribute your victory to your rival's troubles. That is what ticks me off.

As for the race wins, my mistake. I forgot to factor in China.

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2007, 00:44  
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Silver Shadow wrote:

As for Alonso, I'm glad he's getting beaten by Hamilton. I never liked Alonso a lot because of the way he became champion. Kimi had the fastest car on the field, won more, but at the same time, broke down a lot. Alonso never said that he won because Kimi broke down (Nurburgring 2005) or anything like that. He attributed his victory to tire strategy and the old "I'm so amazing" c**p. When Schumacher blew up in the penultimate race last year, Fernando didn't say that he won because Schumi blew up. Alonso is not honest and he's desperate to be the undisputed #1 at a team because of the fact that he's a double world champion.

Hamilton OTOH, is a team player, but he is also a rookie in a great car. Kimi earned my respect when he was able to deliver stunning drives and show that pole position did not always mean a race win. Hamilton had to start from pole every time this year in order to win, and still that wasn't the 100% determiner (Great Britain '07). I won't say that Lewis is great or Lewis is bad, I just think he has more to learn and being WDC this year might be more detrimental to him in the future simply because all he knows is how to drive a great car, not a sub-par car like Kimi in 2004 and 2006. When he can show that he can drive from the back of the field for a points paying position, I will have respect for Hamilton. I am neutral on Hamilton. I don't think he's amazing, considering all the hype, but I don't think he's terrible because he hasn't been in an inconsistent and unreliable car yet.


finally someone that tells it like it is. I 100% agree. I never liked Alonso because a lot of the wins he got were by opponents DNF. The only good battles I'll give him credit for is Imola 2005, Turkey 2006, and Nurburgring 2007, those ones he really did beat schumi and massa fair and square. I like Lewis because he is very mature about handling situations. He lets his racing do the talking. Fernando cried too much this year. If he was a real champion then he would have just taken it all to the track, not to mention he doesn't even have the courage to say good fight just too arrogant to admit defeat.

We are all going to witness history! This year everyone thought with schumi gone F1 was gonna be dull and boring BOY WERE WE WRONG! This has been the best F1 year in a long time 4 challengers for the WDC instead of the usual schumi lockouts. Great year great times.
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2007, 00:53  
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Silver Shadow wrote:
It's perfectly fair to become world champion when the one more deserving blows up. However, it is unfair to say that you are amazing and not attribute your victory to your rival's troubles. That is what ticks me off.

As for the race wins, my mistake. I forgot to factor in China.


"More deserving"?

OK, does that mean if I build an engine squeezing all HP and torque out of it making it blisteringly quick but liable to break down on lap 2 I'll be more deserving the win than the guy who has an engine that lasts the race distance and who actually wins the race? :(

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2007, 01:01  
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xman2331 wrote:
I never liked Alonso because a lot of the wins he got were by opponents DNF


Will you please tell me exactly how many of Alonso's 19 F1 wins he got by opponents breaking down?

Do you realize that Alonso is the driver with the most wins - by far - on the current grid? (Kimi and DC shares second place with 13) THREE of them are won because of mech DNF by the race leader. (Kimi X 2 2005, MS x 1 2006)

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2007, 05:02  
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xman2331 wrote:

This year everyone thought with schumi gone F1 was gonna be dull and boring BOY WERE WE WRONG! This has been the best F1 year in a long time 4 challengers for the WDC instead of the usual schumi lockouts. Great year great times.


i sense a contradiction.
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2007, 05:09  
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xman2331 wrote:
I never liked Alonso because a lot of the wins he got were by opponents DNF


wat was he ment to do when they blew up in front of him in so many races (3). u dont like him because he decided to finish the race? good one.
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2007, 06:26  
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Suntrek wrote:
He won in both 2005 & 2006 fair and square. Period.

Rest part of post ..i agree..but addition..subtraction was ..... :@:2
and "fair and square" is very much arguable.
This year hamilton has beaten him...not fair and square :wink:

I do respect Alonso as great racer but not his character and attitude...which is my personal opinion. $peace

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2007, 11:33  
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zack wrote:
Suntrek wrote:
He won in both 2005 & 2006 fair and square. Period.

Rest part of post ..i agree..but addition..subtraction was ..... :@:2
and "fair and square" is very much arguable.
This year hamilton has beaten him...not fair and square :wink:

I do respect Alonso as great racer but not his character and attitude...which is my personal opinion. $peace


Not liking a person is not a good excuse for demeaning the things he or she achieves. The fairness and squareness of Alonso's WDCs are not arguable, however much you dislike him.

I have no problems acknowledging he's been beaten fair and square this year, btw. I don't like it, but that's another story. Doesn't mean I will question Hamilton's legality to the title. $peace

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2007, 13:56  
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Silver Shadow wrote:
Umm, if you read the rest of my post, you would have seen that "he has more to learn." In general, he is a team player just like the rest of the drivers are what I described them to be in general...


I read your entire post, but that one kinda stood out !grin!
I can say a lot of things about Hamilton, a lot of them nice, some of them not so nice... but a team player... well, of all the 22 drivers currently out there i would rate him in No.22 on the "nice teammate" list
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2007, 14:01  
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Suntrek wrote:
"More deserving"?

OK, does that mean if I build an engine squeezing all HP and torque out of it making it blisteringly quick but liable to break down on lap 2 I'll be more deserving the win than the guy who has an engine that lasts the race distance and who actually wins the race? :(


No, he probably meant in a way that doesn't include saying you're the best driver in the world and that you won the race because you "pushed" your opponent into retirement :roll::

he said that after Kimi crashed on the last lap of Nürburgring and after Schumi burned out in Suzuka... yep, he pushed them allright... from 20seconds behind he did !grin!

Also to my recolection that was Schumacher's first race engine blowout in what was it? 5 - 6 years? Hard to imagine a Renault or a Mercedes topping that stat.
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