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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2007, 20:11  
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Joined: 30 Sep 2007, 03:23
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lmcsp wrote:
McLaren-F1 wrote:
Kimi is lucky to be 3rd

Hmm, I am not too sure about that, we've all seen Kimi do this sort of thing before - I mean, being penalized then driving through the field for a podium, or a win as we saw in 2005 ..

It wasnt luck, I think it was because he could - If he was lucky he wouldve won


i agree. Kimi has consistently put up these kind of drives from the back of the grid. More dissapointing is Ferrari not starting on the right tyres and Kimi having a proper go at a win. I don't feel Hamilton was all that impressive here, furthermore I think he is entrenching himself politically at McClaren to wrap up this title. He learned that he has to play all sides of the ball in F1 by having Alonso as his primary opponent, in much the same way Alonso learned from Schumacher....

I think the stewards were ridiculous with some of their penalties. Kubica drive through penalty for absolutely nothing, I felt it was a blatant favoritism towards Hamilton (where was it that Turn 1 turned into a parking lot earlier this year and the stewards lifted Hamilton from a gravel trap back on track? Ridiculous).

I'd like to figure out what caused Alonso's crash. He's not the type of driver to make that mistake just going in.

TV coverage was horrible. Last lap battle between Kimi and Heikki wasn't even shown correctly, at least they got the Kubica-Massa duel in the end. Alonso crash had a horrible angle and was just kind of putted over by the commentators (at least here in America). SpeedTV coverage is horrible, this is my first time here at these forums so I'm trying to find the light!
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2007, 21:48  
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Balthazar wrote:
lmcsp wrote:
McLaren-F1 wrote:
Kimi is lucky to be 3rd

Hmm, I am not too sure about that, we've all seen Kimi do this sort of thing before - I mean, being penalized then driving through the field for a podium, or a win as we saw in 2005 ..

It wasnt luck, I think it was because he could - If he was lucky he wouldve won


i agree. Kimi has consistently put up these kind of drives from the back of the grid. More dissapointing is Ferrari not starting on the right tyres and Kimi having a proper go at a win. I don't feel Hamilton was all that impressive here, furthermore I think he is entrenching himself politically at McClaren to wrap up this title. He learned that he has to play all sides of the ball in F1 by having Alonso as his primary opponent, in much the same way Alonso learned from Schumacher....

I think the stewards were ridiculous with some of their penalties. Kubica drive through penalty for absolutely nothing, I felt it was a blatant favoritism towards Hamilton (where was it that Turn 1 turned into a parking lot earlier this year and the stewards lifted Hamilton from a gravel trap back on track? Ridiculous).

I'd like to figure out what caused Alonso's crash. He's not the type of driver to make that mistake just going in.

TV coverage was horrible. Last lap battle between Kimi and Heikki wasn't even shown correctly, at least they got the Kubica-Massa duel in the end. Alonso crash had a horrible angle and was just kind of putted over by the commentators (at least here in America). SpeedTV coverage is horrible, this is my first time here at these forums so I'm trying to find the light!


Tv coverage was not very good missed all the crashes it was'nt speed tv i was watchin on itv and it was the same it was the japanese director thats why we saw so much of sato.
^^^ must say though you are wrong about hamilton being put back on the track in the european GP in is in the rules that if your engine is still running you WILL be put back on track, schumacker had it happen to him and he was put back on track and got into the points but maybe you have forgoten that.
I reckon alonso may have touched the rumble strips swinging his car from under him but he says he was aqua plaining but the coverage misses out the start of that crash?
Kimmi did great considering but thats what i expect from him, ferrari ruined massa's race making him pit so many times i think he actually pitted 4 times? why did he also have to pit after only doing 5 laps on new tyres?i would be having words with todt after race if i were him.
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 00:45  
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massa pitted after 5 laps to give kimi 3rd position. pretty apparent team order tactic since it was next to impossible for him to win the wdc. massa will be the #2 for the remaining of the year
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 02:18  
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Yes...Go KIMI!!!!!

U r the best!!!!.....FIA is lated giving regarding tyre info to Team Ferrari.....

Anyway, no matter how...KiMi, u r the hero i always support!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 05:21  
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dazmoffman wrote:
^^^ must say though you are wrong about hamilton being put back on the track in the european GP in is in the rules that if your engine is still running you WILL be put back on track, schumacker had it happen to him and he was put back on track and got into the points but maybe you have forgoten that.

Use of crane is consider as third party and illegal....their is no point in arguing..its useless ..anyways he didn't score any point $peace

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 07:06  
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a stupid race that should never have been started!

ferrari compromised by conveniently being the last ones told about the tyre rule!

ferrari would have 1-2 if the first pit stop never needed to happen!

hamilton was VERY lucky, all he did was drive, no one to bother him and then kubica didnt take him out... LUCKY!

well done to kovalainen and kimi who raced brilliantly and fairly... kimi in particular, great fight back!

unlucky alonso... silly mistake, so was webber and vetel, silly mistake... i read that it was possibly cause by hamilton who is under investigation... doub anything will come of it though.

:) just a stupid stupid race! :)

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 07:29  
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zack wrote:
dazmoffman wrote:
^^^ must say though you are wrong about hamilton being put back on the track in the european GP in is in the rules that if your engine is still running you WILL be put back on track, schumacker had it happen to him and he was put back on track and got into the points but maybe you have forgoten that.

Use of crane is consider as third party and illegal....their is no point in arguing..its useless ..anyways he didn't score any point $peace


Schumacker scored points at the nurburg. No it is not illegal it has happened before and drivers have continued to race. it is in the rules of F1 maybe you dont like it but it is in the rules your arguing is useless i agree with you on that one "Use of a crane is considered as third party and illegal....." < no it isnt NO F1 DRIVER COMPLAINED why? ITS WITHIN THE RULES

Schumacher senior also enjoyed the same assistance four years ago. The FIA commented on the Hamilton situation too (I quote Richard Woods from the FIA in an interview with the Times) "We are extremely happy with what happened," spokesman Richards Woods told The Times. "He was in a dangerous spot - he kept his engine running and the quickest and easiest way, under the circumstances, to get him and the car out of the way was to get him back on the track and get him going again and, as far as we are concerned, that was fine."

Oh have a look
the relevant section of the FIA International Sporting Code is Appendix L Chapter IV.3 which reads as follows:

"b) should a driver be compelled to stop his/her car, either
involuntarily or for any other reason, the car shall be moved
off the track as soon as possible so that its presence does not
constitute a danger or prevent the normal running of the race.
If the driver is not able to move the car out of the potentially
dangerous position, it is the duty of the marshals or other officials
to help. In that case, if the driver succeeds in re-starting the car
without any external help, and rejoins the race without committing
any breach of the regulations and without gaining any advantage
from the preceding movement of the car to a safer position, he/
she will not be excluded from the race..."

Another issue here was the role the marshalls played. I have it on good authority that Lewis was at one point being told by the marshalls at Turn 1 to get out of his car and get himself to safety. Remember, he was the second guy in there after Jenson. After Lewis came Adrian Sutil, Nico, Scott Speed, Anthony Davidson(who managed to stop on the edge of the corner) and, most dangerously of all, Tonio who came flying in late to join the party.

Michael Schumacher(the last man to get the marshalls to help him back onto the track after he had collided with Juan Pablo at the Dunlop Curve at the European Grand Prix at the Nurburgring in 2003). Michael finished fifth in that race after being pushed back on by three marshalls and a tractor driver who had come to drag his car away to retirement. On that occasion, as on this one, the key was that Michael was in a dangerous position and had kept his engine running.

Errr...that's it like you said no point in arguing..its in the rules.
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 11:19  
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TS reports that some pundits are implying that Hamilton seems to be under some kind of protection. Kubica was bumping into many guys but got punished only for the Hamilton incident. Then, at the restart Renault was ordered to keep a wider gap to Hamilton so that basically Heikki would have no chance to try to overtake him.

After hearing the radio message at the start Kimi had been cursing and said that the car would have been a lot faster if he had been able to drive alone, but there was always someone in front of him. So as Hamilton was on the front for most of the time, he didn't really have to worry about colliding with others and thus was clearly the fastest there
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 11:19  
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xman2331 wrote:
massa pitted after 5 laps to give kimi 3rd position. pretty apparent team order tactic since it was next to impossible for him to win the wdc. massa will be the #2 for the remaining of the year


Well i don't know what race were you watching but i actually though Ferrari were expecting for Massa to last the distance if the race was shortened (time ending, not laps)... but i guess they pulled him in a bit soone.
And also, haven't you read what Massa said this week before the race? If Kimi needs his help he'll play a team game until the end of the season.

WDC wrote:
ferrari would have 1-2 if the first pit stop never needed to happen!


Ummm, i think they would definatley have a 1-2... if you look at positions from last to first :roll::
I guess you don't have to have a phD to know that even on the extreme wets they were struggling... what would have happend with the intermediates i couldn't possibly imagine (well we saw Massa spinning right at the first turn so i can probably guess)
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 11:34  
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dazmoffman wrote:
^^^ must say though you are wrong about hamilton being put back on the track in the european GP in is in the rules that if your engine is still running you WILL be put back on track, schumacker had it happen to him and he was put back on track and got into the points but maybe you have forgotten that.


Umm, no, the rules don't say that. Lets review. How many times in F1 history has a car been brought back to the track by a crane? could it be never? oh right, there's this one time with a guy called Hamilton who was later allowed to unlap himself :roll::

dazmoffman wrote:
"b) should a driver be compelled to stop his/her car, either
involuntarily or for any other reason, the car shall be moved
off the track as soon as possible so that its presence does not
constitute a danger or prevent the normal running of the race.
If the driver is not able to move the car out of the potentially
dangerous position, it is the duty of the marshals or other officials
to help. In that case, if the driver succeeds in re-starting the car
without any external help, and rejoins the race without committing
any breach of the regulations and without gaining any advantage
from the preceding movement of the car to a safer position, he/
she will not be excluded from the race..."

Another issue here was the role the marshalls played. I have it on good authority that Lewis was at one point being told by the marshalls at Turn 1 to get out of his car and get himself to safety. Remember, he was the second guy in there after Jenson. After Lewis came Adrian Sutil, Nico, Scott Speed, Anthony Davidson(who managed to stop on the edge of the corner) and, most dangerously of all, Tonio who came flying in late to join the party.

Michael Schumacher(the last man to get the marshalls to help him back onto the track after he had collided with Juan Pablo at the Dunlop Curve at the European Grand Prix at the Nurburgring in 2003). Michael finished fifth in that race after being pushed back on by three marshalls and a tractor driver who had come to drag his car away to retirement. On that occasion, as on this one, the key was that Michael was in a dangerous position and had kept his engine running.

Errr...that's it like you said no point in arguing..its in the rules.


So quoting the regulations by the letter, you can be taken back to the track by the help of officials and marshals (by definition a marshal or official is not a CRANE)

Okay so lets review, Schumacher has his rear wheels in the sand in a curve which is quite fast, so how do you move the car? you get a crane to move it away... probably bringing out the SC. As the car was still running they pushed him back, but the difference between Hamilton and Schumacher was that Schumacher was helped by the marshals by their own initiative, and Hamiltons move to the track was ordered by Charlie Whiting.

I think that in the end it all came back to Hamilton and he didn't score any points, but it did set a nasty precedent in F1. I also think that the race itself should have been restarted with all drivers getting back to their cars, not just the golden boy of FIA.

I'm still hoping for a 3 was battle in Interlagos !grin!
Although i unfortunately know better
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 11:43  
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:p :p Hamilton under the FIA flag on the podium instead of the UK flag.
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 12:07  
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ROFLMAO !grin! !grin!

Good one !cool!!!!
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 13:43  
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Massa pit stop strategy...
Massa Lap times
44 2:22.224
45 2:11.281
46 2:17.478
47 2:10.205
48 2:09.650
49 1:34.620
50 1:32.830
51 1:31.384
52 1:30.348
53 1:30.240
54 1:30.635
55 1:30.623
56 1:30.350
57 1:30.560
58 P 1:36.402 - Routine pit stop

F. MASSA
Lap 2 33.588 - Compulsory stop ..tires :@:2
Lap 15 34.520 - Tires + Fuel
Lap 20 23.769 - Tires
Lap 58 32.499 - Fuel + Tires

Kimi
Lap 3 34.105 - Tires change
Lap 14 32.031 - Fuel + Tires
Lap 40 40.000 - Fuel + Tires + Wing setting

$peace

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 13:53  
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zack wrote:
good iceman1 ..ImageHoly TruthImage



Massa pit stop strategy...
Massa Lap times
44 2:22.224
45 2:11.281
46 2:17.478
47 2:10.205
48 2:09.650
49 1:34.620
50 1:32.830
51 1:31.384
52 1:30.348
53 1:30.240
54 1:30.635
55 1:30.623
56 1:30.350
57 1:30.560
58 P 1:36.402 - Routine pit stop

F. MASSA
Lap 2 33.588 - Compulsory stop ..tires :@:2
Lap 15 34.520 - Tires + Fuel
Lap 20 23.769 - Tires
Lap 58 32.499 - Fuel + Tires

Kimi
Lap 3 34.105 - Tires change
Lap 14 32.031 - Fuel + Tires
Lap 40 40.000 - Fuel + Tires + Wing setting

$peace


a smal pic showing That
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 FORMULA 1 Japanese Grand Prix-Fuji Speedway-
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2007, 14:59  
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Hey, just wanted to say, and I do know this is a wee bit off topic .. but let me get this straight

So if the lead driver was to spinout in the middle of the track, 20 meters from the line on the last lap, a crane could come and pick him up and get him out of danger and across the line?

*ON TOPIC - Fuji*
I just read that there was foul play behind Alonsos performance - Pit strategy and Tire pressures .. albeit Macca de-nigh anything of the sort ..
also, FIA have conveniently "apologized" to Ferrari about the tyre mixup and changed the regs again ..

Oh, and - please someone let me know: isnt there a rule in place about erratic driving behind the safety car or bunching the field up to much or something like that? I am sure james allen has a different rule book when he is commentating ..

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