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 Post subject: Re: 2007 Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2007, 21:16  
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Suntrek wrote:
xman2331 wrote:
alonso is such a sore winner he wins the race and he thinks all the credit goes to him. he doesn't realize he got a full team backing him up and thats the only reason why he even has a shot to win the WDC.

lewis on the other hand knows how to give credit where its due. Alonso = self centered. Lewis = true champion.

i hope alonso's engine blows up in spa. Would love to see his championship hopes go away and watch him cry.

GO LEWIS.

poor felipe

poor kimi

and damn too bad for ferrari this weekend. The looks on those mechanics faces said it all


I think you have been listening too much to James Allen..... :roll::

Why on earth should Alonso have to be "grateful"???

He's one of the best drivers out there. (THE very best in my opinion)

McLaren hired him to do a job and it's his responsibility to do this job the very best he can.

OTOH it's the team's bloody responsibility to provide him with the best possible material and best possible service. That's THEIR job.

Alonso has brought sponsors to McLaren worth millions of pounds.

He's made a great contribution to the development of the MP4-22, probably much more than Hamilton.

He's won 4 races to them, that's 1 more than any other driver this year.

Now, is the team "grateful" to him? Doesn't look like it.

So why on earth should he feel obliged to be "grateful" to them?

And don't worry, Alonso wont cry if his engine blows up in Spa. Engines have blown up on him many times before (remember Monza last year for example?) If it does, he'll only try harder the next race. You can be sure of it.

(now you've made me angry!) :evil:


Imho the only thing alonso did this year was show the world the talent Lewis has. 1st year in F1 and he's proven he ain't no runover like Fisi and Trulli.

The team is "grateful" to him by providing a winning car he can race in. My point still remains he is too selfish to give any credit to the team.

Sure, he's 2 time world champion no doubt he got skills. But imo, the only reason he won in 05 was because of Mclaren's misfortune for Kimi blowing up too many times. And the only reason he won in 06 is because as fate had it Michael's engine let go in Japan.

If Alonso's engine blows up in Spa (or any of the remaining races), he will lose. I know I sound like a hater, but it'll be nice for him to be humbled and understand while he's good and all, there's a true champion in the making.

And it's also because I like rootin' for underdogs. When was the last time a rookie won a WDC in this style of fashion? Even Jacques season cannot compare to this.
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2007, 21:19  
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and did you guys also notice when Alonso came in to take the checker flag rather than driving to the side to acknowledge the team he was way out on the road. I'm sorry but that to me is just him venting towards the team in public. A true winner will never do this kind of things. It's almost as if hes saying "ya thats right I deserve the best and you guys better give it to me". What a joke, people that do not realize the value and backing everyone in the background provides is bound to fail sooner or later. This will be the year I think alonso will be truly humbled. 3x world champion? Sorry, ain't gonna happen imo if Lewis can do anything about it (which I strongly believe he will).

We shall see
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2007, 21:22  
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I'm sorry but how is a McLaren driver an underdog :( especially one that has had McLaren backing since he was a tiddler... Quite a strange statement to make, an underdog would be someone who had the odds against them... Hamilton has raced at most tracks in GP2 anyway therefore knew the track, he has the McLaren simulators which are one of the best in the business and a team of British engineers behind him... The odds aren't really against him...

Sorry but if your humbling Alonso I'm humbling Hamilton :p someone has too...

And don't drag up my Italians into your arguments they were victims to Flavio not Alonso...
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2007, 01:06  
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xman2331 wrote:
Imho the only thing alonso did this year was show the world the talent Lewis has. 1st year in F1 and he's proven he ain't no runover like Fisi and Trulli.

The team is "grateful" to him by providing a winning car he can race in. My point still remains he is too selfish to give any credit to the team.

Sure, he's 2 time world champion no doubt he got skills. But imo, the only reason he won in 05 was because of Mclaren's misfortune for Kimi blowing up too many times. And the only reason he won in 06 is because as fate had it Michael's engine let go in Japan.

If Alonso's engine blows up in Spa (or any of the remaining races), he will lose. I know I sound like a hater, but it'll be nice for him to be humbled and understand while he's good and all, there's a true champion in the making.

And it's also because I like rootin' for underdogs. When was the last time a rookie won a WDC in this style of fashion? Even Jacques season cannot compare to this.


I thought we were discussing Alonso here - not Lewis. I didn't with a single word mention Lewis, so why do you bring him in?

Folowing your own analogy - Alonso is "grateful" to the team by doing his best in the car they provide him with. Preferrably winning. That's his job and that's what he's paid for. No more and no less. So far his done his job well. He's brought McLaren four wins and he's the only driver on the grid that has scored points in ALL races. McLaren's points.

Alonso won in 05 because he scored many more points in the beginning of the season. When McLaren got their act together it was already too late. Kimi's engine didn't blow up even once in race in 2005, he lost some points because of grid penalties, but that's a completely different thing. Kimi had 3 DNF in race in 2005. One was his own fault (tyre), one hydraulic valve mess-up by mechanic, one driveshaft failure. So nice try, but no cigar :roll::

MS in 2006? Easy, you can do the calculation yourself. Pretend MS engine hadn't given in in Japan. Add 10 points to him and take 2 away from Alonso. Now, did this make MS champion? No it didn't. Not to mention what you get if you also pretend Alonso's engine hadn't given in in Italy. #Fear Or that his wheelnut hadn't fallen off in Hungary. #Fear Another nice try, but still no cigar.

I appreciate you are a Hamilton fan, but there's really no need to hate and badmouth Alonso because of that. $peace

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2007, 05:00  
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Suntrek wrote:
I thought we were discussing Alonso here - not Lewis. I didn't with a single word mention Lewis, so why do you bring him in?

Folowing your own analogy - Alonso is "grateful" to the team by doing his best in the car they provide him with. Preferrably winning. That's his job and that's what he's paid for. No more and no less. So far his done his job well. He's brought McLaren four wins and he's the only driver on the grid that has scored points in ALL races. McLaren's points.

Alonso won in 05 because he scored many more points in the beginning of the season. When McLaren got their act together it was already too late. Kimi's engine didn't blow up even once in race in 2005, he lost some points because of grid penalties, but that's a completely different thing. Kimi had 3 DNF in race in 2005. One was his own fault (tyre), one hydraulic valve mess-up by mechanic, one driveshaft failure. So nice try, but no cigar :roll::

MS in 2006? Easy, you can do the calculation yourself. Pretend MS engine hadn't given in in Japan. Add 10 points to him and take 2 away from Alonso. Now, did this make MS champion? No it didn't. Not to mention what you get if you also pretend Alonso's engine hadn't given in in Italy. #Fear Or that his wheelnut hadn't fallen off in Hungary. #Fear Another nice try, but still no cigar.

I appreciate you are a Hamilton fan, but there's really no need to hate and badmouth Alonso because of that. $peace


Firstly ..It isn't necessary very good racer should be good human being!
Alonso makes lot English errors.. (i,we team..) but its completely understandable.
Giving the credits is just humanly tradition! .. Team gets its respect by accepting trophy on stage!
But few good words doesn't kill you ..that can also be said $peace
For 2006 you can add Renaults forbidden mass damper :@:2
if its up to pretending ...some outcomes ...then result will surely be tuned for myself(fans) favor!
Alonso won 2005 & 2006 ..the end of story. $peace

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2007, 07:47  
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dazmoffman wrote:
^^ Wow a hamilton hater, i wish there were more F1 fans on this site, "Hamilton is just a boy, how believes he is important, but he is nothing" Statement of the week mate well done, im convinced by that and so are all his rivals on the track.

Thanks but I hate Button more than Hamilton.

dazmoffman wrote:
Alonso was always in the picture of another title championship he is awesome and it would be fantastic for the sport if it goes to the last race not only for alonso/hamilton but also if kimi and felipe could claw up the table and it be a late decider that would be awesome.

Of course, there would be really fantastic if Alonso-Hamilton-Massa-Kimi-Heidfield-Kubica-Kovalainen, are on 3 points in last race.

dazmoffman wrote:
i would like hamilton to win WDC but it but this is his first year and was not even expecting him to be above 4th at any given point in the season but look at the tables he has (imo) done better than ANYONE had expected but this is his rookie season and i still dont expect him to win it overall as i would expect experiance to play a part now but give credit where credit is due.

This is also, Alonso first year on a really good team. Who believe that Reanult can win a championship (now or two years ago) without Alonso. Do you think Renault can win next year any title (constructor or driver)?. And now same question, but if Alonso come back to Renault next year.

Yes is Hamilton first year, he is a rookie, but no other driver was seat on a winner car on his first year. Do you think Alonso can win championship on his first year, when he was on Minardi?.

Hamilton, think, If I win, "i'm the best", if not, "well I'm rookie". McLaren only have WINNERS drivers. The can Win or Not Win.

dazmoffman wrote:
I just want a good end to the season regardless of who wins as i have really enjoyed this season and do not want it to end, i thought it wouldnt become laclustre without schumi but it is still great.

I want it too. But don't want more trucks on track, more penalties without say what rule was broken, and suchs things.

Let's the drivers race. Do not disturb them from FIA (spy story), or inside themself teams.



Grettings from Almeria, South-East coast of Spain (today raining)
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2007, 12:06  
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Yep, going back to my earlier comment, yes hamilton should have been penalized for that move at the first corner - I have just downloaded the start, and he totally out braked himself .. hamilton should have had a drive-through, no question!!

Yes the boy can drive, but it does appear that he has some angels in the FIA, I can't believe no one else has picked this up!

I have seen way too much to like this guy [hamilton] racing is racing, but I know that if Alonso had done it [the same move] he would have been penalized.

Anyone who would like to argue this, be my guest, but that, imho, was drive-through material

Can't wait till Thursday, when they kick macca out, and their little golden-boy, I just feel for Fernando - having said that, yeehaa, Kimi will be champ!!

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2007, 13:48  
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GP Monza 2006
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:evil: :evil: :evil: BAD, BAD MS!!! Why do you pass by the pit wall? Do you want to hurt your own people?? Shame on you... :evil: :evil: :evil:
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2007, 15:29  
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anaconda wrote:
GP Monza 2006
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:evil: :evil: :evil: BAD, BAD MS!!! Why do you pass by the pit wall? Do you want to hurt your own people?? Shame on you... :evil: :evil: :evil:


hey m8 ..hi
Just bcoz alonso said that "We were too fast here in Monza and if you go too close to them, then there is too much air coming to them. (Laughter). It is more dangerous here than in any (other) place."

You can see ms driving beside white line ...i think thats enoughs to clarify such BAD BAD .... :angel: :@:2

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 Post subject: Re: 2007 Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2007, 15:41  
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zack wrote:
Here comes anti-ms or alonso fan boy :@:2
Just bcoz alonso said that "We were too fast here in Monza and if you go too close to them, then there is too much air coming to them. (Laughter). It is more dangerous here than in any (other) place."

You can see ms driving beside white line ...i think thats enoughs to clarify such BAD BAD .... :angel: :@:2


I think Alonso didn't have any to celebrate with his team (sorry, McLaren team)
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2007, 23:16  
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Dark_Fisico wrote:
I'm sorry but how is a McLaren driver an underdog :( especially one that has had McLaren backing since he was a tiddler... Quite a strange statement to make, an underdog would be someone who had the odds against them... Hamilton has raced at most tracks in GP2 anyway therefore knew the track, he has the McLaren simulators which are one of the best in the business and a team of British engineers behind him... The odds aren't really against him...

Sorry but if your humbling Alonso I'm humbling Hamilton :p someone has too...

And don't drag up my Italians into your arguments they were victims to Flavio not Alonso...


Lewis is an underdog compared to Alonso because in the beginning of the year everyone expected Lewis to endure a steep learning curve which means Fernando was suppose to mow right through him. The fact that lewis ISN'T getting destroyed and instead taking the fight to Fernando AS A ROOKIE means hes an underdog that has potential to win. Not even Fernando had the skills to do that during his debut year (granted he was in a crappy car, but still).

How are you gonna say the odds aren't against him. HE IS A ROOKIE. That alone makes him an underdog. But of course we all now know what this "rookie" is capable of; that is giving the 2 time world champion a challenge hes never faced, and on the brink of potentially losing out the opportunity to becoming a 3x champion.

The last 4 races will be very exciting. Ferrari's are no longer contenders in my opinion. Looks like after Ross Brawn left their bullet-proof reliability has gone out the door. Better luck next year for the tifosi.

Best of luck to Lewis in spa
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2007, 23:23  
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Suntrek wrote:

I thought we were discussing Alonso here - not Lewis. I didn't with a single word mention Lewis, so why do you bring him in?

Folowing your own analogy - Alonso is "grateful" to the team by doing his best in the car they provide him with. Preferrably winning. That's his job and that's what he's paid for. No more and no less. So far his done his job well. He's brought McLaren four wins and he's the only driver on the grid that has scored points in ALL races. McLaren's points.

Alonso won in 05 because he scored many more points in the beginning of the season. When McLaren got their act together it was already too late. Kimi's engine didn't blow up even once in race in 2005, he lost some points because of grid penalties, but that's a completely different thing. Kimi had 3 DNF in race in 2005. One was his own fault (tyre), one hydraulic valve mess-up by mechanic, one driveshaft failure. So nice try, but no cigar :roll::

MS in 2006? Easy, you can do the calculation yourself. Pretend MS engine hadn't given in in Japan. Add 10 points to him and take 2 away from Alonso. Now, did this make MS champion? No it didn't. Not to mention what you get if you also pretend Alonso's engine hadn't given in in Italy. #Fear Or that his wheelnut hadn't fallen off in Hungary. #Fear Another nice try, but still no cigar.

I appreciate you are a Hamilton fan, but there's really no need to hate and badmouth Alonso because of that. $peace


I don't think Alonso is good because he is too cocky and whines too much when the odds are stacked against him. Look at MS during his prime, when he got smoked in 05 he stepped down with style and flare and NEVER complained once - something real champions do.

Look at Fernando this year, the second things started going wrong for him he complains the team doesn't back him up, how he isn't comfortable being in Mclaren, how the car isn't fast enough. Give me a break, I've never heard so much crying before ever. Recall 06 in Monza when he got penalized for supposedly blocking Massa during the last lap of qualifying. Instead of just sacking it he cries and says "I don't consider formula1 anymore like a sport". Wow...

True champions should adopt the Henry Ford (U.S. president)'s motto: Never explain, never complain. You keep your mouth shut during adversities and fight hard to bounce back...not cry to try to gain empathy from people.

This is why I like Lewis. He never complains about anything. If he loses he will say good fight. He is open and confident enough to admit other drivers outperformed him during particular races (notice during the monza post race conference Fernando kept saying me me me, while Lewis had the b*** to admit Fernando was the better man for the day and did all the right things). When hamilton won in u.s. with fernando second, you don't hear fernando saying anything like that. Sore loser imo
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2007, 00:13  
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xman2331 wrote:
Suntrek wrote:

I thought we were discussing Alonso here - not Lewis. I didn't with a single word mention Lewis, so why do you bring him in?

Folowing your own analogy - Alonso is "grateful" to the team by doing his best in the car they provide him with. Preferrably winning. That's his job and that's what he's paid for. No more and no less. So far his done his job well. He's brought McLaren four wins and he's the only driver on the grid that has scored points in ALL races. McLaren's points.

Alonso won in 05 because he scored many more points in the beginning of the season. When McLaren got their act together it was already too late. Kimi's engine didn't blow up even once in race in 2005, he lost some points because of grid penalties, but that's a completely different thing. Kimi had 3 DNF in race in 2005. One was his own fault (tyre), one hydraulic valve mess-up by mechanic, one driveshaft failure. So nice try, but no cigar :roll::

MS in 2006? Easy, you can do the calculation yourself. Pretend MS engine hadn't given in in Japan. Add 10 points to him and take 2 away from Alonso. Now, did this make MS champion? No it didn't. Not to mention what you get if you also pretend Alonso's engine hadn't given in in Italy. #Fear Or that his wheelnut hadn't fallen off in Hungary. #Fear Another nice try, but still no cigar.

I appreciate you are a Hamilton fan, but there's really no need to hate and badmouth Alonso because of that. $peace


I don't think Alonso is good because he is too cocky and whines too much when the odds are stacked against him. Look at MS during his prime, when he got smoked in 05 he stepped down with style and flare and NEVER complained once - something real champions do.

Look at Fernando this year, the second things started going wrong for him he complains the team doesn't back him up, how he isn't comfortable being in Mclaren, how the car isn't fast enough. Give me a break, I've never heard so much crying before ever. Recall 06 in Monza when he got penalized for supposedly blocking Massa during the last lap of qualifying. Instead of just sacking it he cries and says "I don't consider formula1 anymore like a sport". Wow...

True champions should adopt the Henry Ford (U.S. president)'s motto: Never explain, never complain. You keep your mouth shut during adversities and fight hard to bounce back...not cry to try to gain empathy from people.

This is why I like Lewis. He never complains about anything. If he loses he will say good fight. He is open and confident enough to admit other drivers outperformed him during particular races (notice during the monza post race conference Fernando kept saying me me me, while Lewis had the b*** to admit Fernando was the better man for the day and did all the right things). When hamilton won in u.s. with fernando second, you don't hear fernando saying anything like that. Sore loser imo


Alonso blocking him comes to mind :( ...

Fernando was so 100% NOT blocking Massa at monza he was WAY too far infront of him to block him, and nearly everyone agrees with that (apart from Ferrari)...

As for the underdog statement, I've made my points about why Alonso found it harder to adapt to McLaren then someone who and I will bold this so it sticks in your mind HAND RAISED BY MCLAREN AND SPENT MOST OF HIS CAREER ON BRIDGESTONE... You might not think that tyres make a difference but believe me the little differences DO make a BIG difference... Alonso has had to TOTALLY re-think his driving style (granted like Kimi though Kimi has the added advantage of Ferrari-Bridgestone relations)... I think you miss the point I make frequently HAMILTON IS IN A MCLAREN therefore he is NOT an underdog... Rookie or no rookie it doesn't matter... Its just an excuse for being really bad in your first year... Lots of people have been brilliant rookies and if they had been in Ferraris or McLarens then they'd have done the same job... I wouldn't ever say that Hamilton isn't a good driver because he has to be to be in F1 full stop, but until you see what he can do in something lower down the field then you can never say he was better then drivers who won in Jordans, or Minardis...
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2007, 13:43  
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xman2331 wrote:
This is why I like Lewis. He never complains about anything. If he loses he will say good fight. He is open and confident enough to admit other drivers outperformed him during particular races (notice during the monza post race conference Fernando kept saying me me me, while Lewis had the b*** to admit Fernando was the better man for the day and did all the right things). When hamilton won in u.s. with fernando second, you don't hear fernando saying anything like that. Sore loser imo


So he didn't complain after Monaco, for example? Whining about being the no 2 driver? Sore loser, maybe? :roll::

And he didn't tell Ron Dennis some xxxx-words in Hungary? And deliberately ignored the team strategy at the same race, just thinking "me, me, me"?

Now, I don't want to turn this into a "my-driver-is-better-than-yours-nah-nah-nah" argument. I have nothing against Lewis.

What I can't understand is that the Hamilton supporters (like you) at the same time have to hate Alonso and do all they can to paint him out like a bad person....? :(

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Last edited by Suntrek on 12 Sep 2007, 13:46, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 2007 Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2007, 13:45  
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Suntrek wrote:
xman2331 wrote:
This is why I like Lewis. He never complains about anything. If he loses he will say good fight. He is open and confident enough to admit other drivers outperformed him during particular races (notice during the monza post race conference Fernando kept saying me me me, while Lewis had the b*** to admit Fernando was the better man for the day and did all the right things). When hamilton won in u.s. with fernando second, you don't hear fernando saying anything like that. Sore loser imo


So he didn't complain after Monaco, for example? Whining about being the no 2 driver? Sore loser, maybe? :roll::

And he didn't tell Ron Dennis some xxxx-words in Hungary?

Now, I don't want to turn this into a "my-driver-is-better-than-yours-nah-nah-nah" argument. I have nothing against Lewis.

What I can't understand is that the Hamilton supporters (like you) at the same time have to hate Alonso and do all they can to paint him out like a bad person....? :(

I'm a Hamilton supporter and i don't hate Fernando at all

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