UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Who will win the Chinese Grand Prix?

Poll ended at 09 Apr 2013, 09:31

Sebastian Vettel
8
22%
Kimi Raikkonen
7
19%
Mark Webber
2
5%
Lewis Hamilton
7
19%
Felipe Massa
3
8%
Fernando Alonso
6
16%
Nico Rosberg
0
No votes
Romain Grosjean
0
No votes
Jenson Button
4
11%
Sergio Perez
0
No votes
Nico Hulkenberg
0
No votes
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 37

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F1EA
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by F1EA » 17 Apr 2013, 17:01

Kimi was never totally 'side by side' to Perez, but he had already put his front wheels at least about driver's level... against Alonso he was always behind.

But yea Kimi is being overly aggressive. He's still a fair defender, but he definitely is going for nearly impossible gaps....

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mikhailv
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by mikhailv » 17 Apr 2013, 18:29

F1EA wrote:Kimi was never totally 'side by side' to Perez, but he had already put his front wheels at least about driver's level... against Alonso he was always behind.

But yea Kimi is being overly aggressive. He's still a fair defender, but he definitely is going for nearly impossible gaps....
Yeah. Funniest thing is, he is going overly aggressive now but bahrain last year, he was an utter wimp. vettel left him half the track open to overtake him and kimi backed out. Even with his 2 years out I fully expected him to go for a gap the size of france....

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Soren
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by Soren » 17 Apr 2013, 19:09

mikhailv wrote: Kimi wouldnt leave a space because nobody with intelligence would go for an overtake where your car would be half off track over kerbs for a right hand turn where your totally offline.


And he tried to go for something which would never be there in Japan;



40 seconds in; Kimi is already heading to the grass, Alonso doesnt make contact, kimi jinks left, loses control and hits Alonso. Exactly what he did with Perez; he goes for a gap thats never there, never going to materialise, and hits the back of the car infront. Look at 12 seconds in; The sauber ahead it touching the white line, Alonso has left half a meters gap constantly and as the corner goes right the gap naturally decreases in the turn. Where the hell Kimi was expecting to go, i dont know. Purely his fault; there was never any gap without going off track as shown in the onboard with Massa, and as shown on the onboard with Alonso, he leaves a gap but never enough for a car to even attempt to get by.
Pretty much every pundit already established that this was Alonsos own fault. It was Alonso that moved over to try and block Kimi. But he was too late. Kimi had already occupied that space. There was nowhere for him to go. Dont be silly. Besides, you cant compare a start with 24 cars to a single overtaking situation.
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mikhailv
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by mikhailv » 17 Apr 2013, 19:46

Am I really someone who cares what pundits say. How was Alonso too late to cover Kimi, when kimi never gets alongside past half a width of the rear wheel? 1) where was kimi going to go, into the back of the sauber? 2) The track turns right, Kimi would be on the grass and lose control. 3) Look at Alonso's onboard, there wasn't a cars width ever there 4) Massa's onboard shows Alonso moved away from kimi, Kimi does just like he did with Perez, gets on the grass after going for a gap that was never there, would never materialise, and he wouldve ended up off the track regardless or into the back of the sauber, then loses the car and hits him.

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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by F1EA » 17 Apr 2013, 20:56

mikhailv wrote:Yeah. Funniest thing is, he is going overly aggressive now but bahrain last year, he was an utter wimp. vettel left him half the track open to overtake him and kimi backed out. Even with his 2 years out I fully expected him to go for a gap the size of france....
Maybe the Red Bull intimidated him hehehe
Soren wrote: Pretty much every pundit already established that this was Alonsos own fault. It was Alonso that moved over to try and block Kimi. But he was too late. Kimi had already occupied that space. There was nowhere for him to go. Dont be silly. Besides, you cant compare a start with 24 cars to a single overtaking situation.
Who cares about the pundits.

In any case, you said it yourself. You can't compare a start with 24 cars with a one-on-one move. Kimi was always behind Alonso, while he was partly beside Sergio already. Even though both were over aggressive, Sergio should have left the space and let Kimi fly off to the gravel by himself; rather than boxing him. Alonso had no choice.

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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by KevC » 18 Apr 2013, 09:11

Not sure if this has been posted already.

Total race time

2012 China
Race: Rosberg 1:36.26.929

2013 China
Race: Alonso 1:36:26.945

Close :)

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tderias
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by tderias » 18 Apr 2013, 11:06

Wow, down to the hundredth! I bet that's a first!

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mikhailv
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by mikhailv » 18 Apr 2013, 12:37

And alonso wasn't pushing in the final stint ;D

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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by Adam » 18 Apr 2013, 16:44

This was exactly the kind of race I love to watch. The three drivers I like the most in the podium, a pay driver crashing (Gutierrez), and no Vettel in the podium. It would have been perfect if Webber had finished fourth.

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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by Green Flag » 18 Apr 2013, 18:44

Soren wrote:
mikhailv wrote: Kimi wouldnt leave a space because nobody with intelligence would go for an overtake where your car would be half off track over kerbs for a right hand turn where your totally offline.


And he tried to go for something which would never be there in Japan;



40 seconds in; Kimi is already heading to the grass, Alonso doesnt make contact, kimi jinks left, loses control and hits Alonso. Exactly what he did with Perez; he goes for a gap thats never there, never going to materialise, and hits the back of the car infront. Look at 12 seconds in; The sauber ahead it touching the white line, Alonso has left half a meters gap constantly and as the corner goes right the gap naturally decreases in the turn. Where the hell Kimi was expecting to go, i dont know. Purely his fault; there was never any gap without going off track as shown in the onboard with Massa, and as shown on the onboard with Alonso, he leaves a gap but never enough for a car to even attempt to get by.
Pretty much every pundit already established that this was Alonsos own fault. It was Alonso that moved over to try and block Kimi. But he was too late. Kimi had already occupied that space. There was nowhere for him to go. Dont be silly. Besides, you cant compare a start with 24 cars to a single overtaking situation.
The following (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p30s7D0oIPw) contains a few good views on the Suzuka 2012 incident. You can make up your own minds. Also Anthony Davidson and Georgie Whatshername analyzed this on the Sky broadcast at the time, using all the relevant footage, and (according to my admittedly hazy memory) the conclusion was that Räikkönen had every right to be there. And he only hit Alonso after being initially forced off the track, when Alonso swerved to the left the second time. But who cares what the pundits say.

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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by F1EA » 18 Apr 2013, 19:08

Green Flag wrote:
Soren wrote:
mikhailv wrote: Kimi wouldnt leave a space because nobody with intelligence would go for an overtake where your car would be half off track over kerbs for a right hand turn where your totally offline.


And he tried to go for something which would never be there in Japan;



40 seconds in; Kimi is already heading to the grass, Alonso doesnt make contact, kimi jinks left, loses control and hits Alonso. Exactly what he did with Perez; he goes for a gap thats never there, never going to materialise, and hits the back of the car infront. Look at 12 seconds in; The sauber ahead it touching the white line, Alonso has left half a meters gap constantly and as the corner goes right the gap naturally decreases in the turn. Where the hell Kimi was expecting to go, i dont know. Purely his fault; there was never any gap without going off track as shown in the onboard with Massa, and as shown on the onboard with Alonso, he leaves a gap but never enough for a car to even attempt to get by.
Pretty much every pundit already established that this was Alonsos own fault. It was Alonso that moved over to try and block Kimi. But he was too late. Kimi had already occupied that space. There was nowhere for him to go. Dont be silly. Besides, you cant compare a start with 24 cars to a single overtaking situation.
The following (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p30s7D0oIPw) contains a few good views on the Suzuka 2012 incident. You can make up your own minds. Also Anthony Davidson and Georgie Whatshername analyzed this on the Sky broadcast at the time, using all the relevant footage, and (according to my admittedly hazy memory) the conclusion was that Räikkönen had every right to be there. And he only hit Alonso after being initially forced off the track, when Alonso swerved to the left the second time. But who cares what the pundits say.
Kimi's front tires were never in front of Alonso's rears. Alonso did not swerve twice. There was a bit of space of track to the left of Kimi (PLUS the runoff); no space to the right of Alonso (Button), and a crash up front; Kimi was on his left and behind, so no space to his left either and obviously he couldn't slow down. The ONLY guy with 3 options was Kimi: slow down, left or right.

Vs Perez at China:
Kimi had his wheels almost at his fronts. Perez had a clear track ahead and to his right. And actually to his rear, cause Kimi was besides him. Kimi had NO space on the track, because Sergio left none, even though you're supposed to; but he had the runoff, which he took.

I don't care what the pundits say.

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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by François » 18 Apr 2013, 20:53

re: Suzuka 2012

Kimi held his (straight) line from the start. It was Alonso who swerved aggressively to the left to cover Kimi before he was fully clear of him. Same mistake as Grosjean in Spa, and same mistake as Alonso himself was lucky to get away with in Monaco. Albeit marginal, 100% his mistake. You can't move across without being fully ahead and expect the other car to yield.

At least he had the class not to make a fuss about it.
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Re: UBS Chinese Grand Prix

Post by F1EA » 18 Apr 2013, 21:48

François wrote:re: Suzuka 2012

Kimi held his (straight) line from the start. It was Alonso who swerved aggressively to the left to cover Kimi before he was fully clear of him. Same mistake as Grosjean in Spa, and same mistake as Alonso himself was lucky to get away with in Monaco. Albeit marginal, 100% his mistake. You can't move across without being fully ahead and expect the other car to yield.

At least he had the class not to make a fuss about it.
Alonso Q'ed ahead of Kimi and got about the same start (ie Kimi was NEVER past his rear tires). Alonso steadily went left for the clean side, something pretty much all drivers do on the start. Sergio did a bit similar (going to the race line), except without leaving any room to a car BESIDES him and, having a clear track. Considering there was a crash ahead, Alonso could have braked, like Vettel did in Malaysia. ;)

Grosjean in Spa turned to the dirty side, AND did not leave space for Lewis; considering there was a wall there, this is even worse (even for a start) than crowding an opponent vs the runoff. But Lewis was also not beside him.

The thing that made it an "issue" is that Alonso sustained race ending damage; and obviously Grosjean's was a repeat offense which put other drivers at serious risk. But all of them were simple race incidents. Very marginal indeed. Stuff that happens.

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