Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Who will win the Malaysia Grand Prix?

Poll ended at 24 Mar 2013, 11:14

Kimi Raikkonen
12
27%
Fernando Alonso
9
20%
Sebastian Vettel
13
29%
Felipe Massa
5
11%
Lewis Hamilton
1
2%
Mark Webber
1
2%
Adrian Sutil
0
No votes
Paul di Resta
0
No votes
Jenson Button
2
4%
Romain Grosjean
1
2%
Sergio Perez
0
No votes
Nico Rosberg
1
2%
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 45

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Eric_Cartman
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Re: Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Post by Eric_Cartman » 25 Mar 2013, 11:21

Will there be any driver ratings for this race?
FC BAYERN 7 - BARCELONA 0

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tderias
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Re: Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Post by tderias » 25 Mar 2013, 14:04

Its certainly the most controversial thing I've seen since 2010, even more than 'Fernando is faster than you'...

We'll see how it plays out. Honestly coming to think about, I can't make up my mind if its a positive or negative to Vettel's CV.

It can show complete ruthlessness and desire for nothing less than P1, then again it is at the expense of other people, and can be considered cheating since Webber was a sitting duck.

Only time will tell...

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Re: Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Post by François » 25 Mar 2013, 14:16

Eric_Cartman wrote:Will there be any driver ratings for this race?
Vettel: multi 21/10
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Re: Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Post by mikhailv » 25 Mar 2013, 14:31

tderias wrote:Its certainly the most controversial thing I've seen since 2010, even more than 'Fernando is faster than you'...

We'll see how it plays out. Honestly coming to think about, I can't make up my mind if its a positive or negative to Vettel's CV.

It can show complete ruthlessness and desire for nothing less than P1, then again it is at the expense of other people, and can be considered cheating since Webber was a sitting duck.

Only time will tell...
Well to a future Formula 1 team he may want to move to he has shown;

A) He isn't a team player
B) He will disobey the team after multiple requests
C) He is willing to risk his car against a teammate
D) He is willing to go against agreements made with the team and teammate
E) Happily use team orders if they are beneficial but refuse them if they are detrimental.
F) When Helmut Dicko cant even defend you, you know you crossed a line.

If your Ferrari and you've got Alonso. If your mercedes and you've got Hamilton. Would you take Vettel on, knowing that he is against drivers of better calibre, but knowing he will A) Disobey team orders B) put his and his teammates car at risk and C) Go against any pre-agreement/gentleman's word?

Hamilton and Alonso would begrudgingly do what Nico Rosberg did.

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Re: Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Post by KevC » 25 Mar 2013, 14:34

François wrote:
Eric_Cartman wrote:Will there be any driver ratings for this race?
Vettel: multi 21/10
:lol:

You can already order T-shirts!!

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Re: Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Post by Ether » 25 Mar 2013, 15:05

Sanredrose wrote:
Ether wrote:
Sanredrose wrote:
Joey Zyla wrote:
icemaid wrote:The drama at RedBull is not unexpected. :zz:
But I am utterly disappointed with Ross Brawn! :<>:
He is %#@*
I'm not, a 3-4 finish is a good finish.
Well Merc should have let Rosberg pass Hamilton .... Redbull case is a little different, Webber was asked to tone down in order to save engine and fuel. In Merc's case, lewis was slow, may be due to his tyres. Rosberg had the advantage and didn't pull the move.

No, Lewis had to save fuel! and particularly Nico didn't. So I don't know why they end up like that. Hamilton admitted that he pushed a lot for catching up one of the Red Bulls, but it cost him to safe fuel at the middle of the race, which was strange, but acceptable as something not solely because of the driver fault in my opinion. Letting Rosberg through or not, is not correct as well, so they should have been racing each other, but hey, they did! for maybe 2/3 laps? then Ross definitely radioing Rosberg by saying "Negative". Probably if the battle continues, Hamilton would have been ran out of fuel, so Mercedes probably will miss huge 12 Points up there..
Agreed, i got the facts wrong. Hamilton was slow to save fuel ... You can remind me of Hakkinen/Coulthard, 1998, team made a mistake and DC was happy to let Mika claim victory. Things are not so rosy with any team right now. Hamilton was saving fuel, but letting Rosberg go would have allowed him to hunt down the RBR units. In the midst of Vettel/Webber tussle, Rosberg could have sneaked in to gain a place.
Yes I know there is preferences there in Mercedes on Hamilton. I can see it clearly, but it's cannot be totally wrong for the team order. Why? because if Hamilton or Rosberg didn't given any team orders, they would fight each other, just like what we want! Racing each other... racing is different from just letting a teammate pass! That is the main difference! So, if they were not told to hold, they might race each other and might end up in total mess, probably not contact, but Hamilton could be ran out of fuel.
If we say, Letting Rosberg go and let him try to catch up the Red Bulls, then I couldn't see any difference between holding position and letting pass without any fight, both are team orders! without team orders, they would fight each other, just like past days between Hamilton and Button.

Besides, I'm pretty sure both Red Bulls and Mercedes were highly concerned about their tyres life, probably also some concern about reliability issue, that's why both Webber and Vettel are told Multi21, so that not risking anything unnecessary.. like, let's say tyres out of service, and getting passed by Mercedes. It was interesting for RB to let Webber win the race, and hold Vettel. I believe they were much concern about their tyres..
So, in Mercedes point of view, I believe was the same. But they were worsened by the haunting of saving fuel as well.. Rosberg was also told to safe fuel at the end of the race, so frankly speaking, if Hamilton was told to let Rosberg pass and let him catch the Red Bulls, I don't think Rosberg could pass the RB though.. But yes, he might show some pressure on the Red Bulls. But the result would probably the same anyway... But Rosberg would have been smiling and jumping happily on the podium :lol:

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Re: Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Post by KevC » 25 Mar 2013, 15:46

What I don't understand about the Merc issue is that if Hamilton was feeling uneasy about Rosberg not being allowed through, he could easily have just lifted off and left him go by. Finishing 3rd and 4th or 4th and 3rd didn't really make any odds.

You can't get out of the car and so oh I feel bad cos Nico should really have been here on the podium, when you had simple chances to let him be.

But also Rosberg was silly to keep passing before the last corner and giving Hamilton DRS to turn 1. All he had to do was stick Hamilton's gearbox at the last corner and he could have breezed by earlier in the race when he was trying so hard to do it at the wrong place.

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Re: Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Post by hamilton10000 » 25 Mar 2013, 17:20

Dont know if this has already been said but you would have thought redbull would have told vettel to let webber back through and we would have heard it if it had been made so although he might not have done it they didnt even tell him to let webber back through. This shows yet more favouritism towards vettel. Redbull+Vettel = RIM

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Re: Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Post by andrew » 25 Mar 2013, 17:29

mikhailv wrote:
tderias wrote:Its certainly the most controversial thing I've seen since 2010, even more than 'Fernando is faster than you'...

We'll see how it plays out. Honestly coming to think about, I can't make up my mind if its a positive or negative to Vettel's CV.

It can show complete ruthlessness and desire for nothing less than P1, then again it is at the expense of other people, and can be considered cheating since Webber was a sitting duck.

Only time will tell...
Well to a future Formula 1 team he may want to move to he has shown;

A) He isn't a team player
B) He will disobey the team after multiple requests
C) He is willing to risk his car against a teammate
D) He is willing to go against agreements made with the team and teammate
E) Happily use team orders if they are beneficial but refuse them if they are detrimental.
F) When Helmut Dicko cant even defend you, you know you crossed a line.

If your Ferrari and you've got Alonso. If your mercedes and you've got Hamilton. Would you take Vettel on, knowing that he is against drivers of better calibre, but knowing he will A) Disobey team orders B) put his and his teammates car at risk and C) Go against any pre-agreement/gentleman's word?

Hamilton and Alonso would begrudgingly do what Nico Rosberg did.
Just Vettel showing the ruthlessness of a true great.

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Re: Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Post by Treacle » 25 Mar 2013, 17:43

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/24/2 ... test-laps/

I'm not sure if these are legit or not. But it's interesting to compare the two Red Bull's pace (while keeping in mind that Webber had the hard tires and Vettel had the medium compound)... Also, Hamilton's pace doesn't seem that off...
"Right now I'm having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before."

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Re: Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Post by kals » 25 Mar 2013, 18:11

The race was interesting and the different tactics concerning team orders played by drivers at Red Bull and Mercedes made it even more thrilling. But let's not forget that in many cases in decades past, it was not uncommon for team management to allow their drivers to race against each other up until the final pit stop. Why is yesterday any different? It seems the entire internet is up in arms over something that has been a part of F1 since the sport's inception.

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Re: Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Post by hamilton10000 » 25 Mar 2013, 18:15

kals wrote:The race was interesting and the different tactics concerning team orders played by drivers at Red Bull and Mercedes made it even more thrilling. But let's not forget that in many cases in decades past, it was not uncommon for team management to allow their drivers to race against each other up until the final pit stop. Why is yesterday any different? It seems the entire internet is up in arms over something that has been a part of F1 since the sport's inception.
The fighting was after the final pitstop and you have said upto the final pitstop. Vettel pitted around lap 43/44 then overtook webber on lap 46. Neither pitted again

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kals
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Re: Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Post by kals » 25 Mar 2013, 18:20

What's your point?

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Re: Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Post by mikhailv » 25 Mar 2013, 18:26

andrew wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
tderias wrote:Its certainly the most controversial thing I've seen since 2010, even more than 'Fernando is faster than you'...

We'll see how it plays out. Honestly coming to think about, I can't make up my mind if its a positive or negative to Vettel's CV.

It can show complete ruthlessness and desire for nothing less than P1, then again it is at the expense of other people, and can be considered cheating since Webber was a sitting duck.

Only time will tell...
Well to a future Formula 1 team he may want to move to he has shown;

A) He isn't a team player
B) He will disobey the team after multiple requests
C) He is willing to risk his car against a teammate
D) He is willing to go against agreements made with the team and teammate
E) Happily use team orders if they are beneficial but refuse them if they are detrimental.
F) When Helmut Dicko cant even defend you, you know you crossed a line.

If your Ferrari and you've got Alonso. If your mercedes and you've got Hamilton. Would you take Vettel on, knowing that he is against drivers of better calibre, but knowing he will A) Disobey team orders B) put his and his teammates car at risk and C) Go against any pre-agreement/gentleman's word?

Hamilton and Alonso would begrudgingly do what Nico Rosberg did.
Just Vettel showing the ruthlessness of a true great.
No, there's ruthlessness like Overtaking your teammate into the pitlane. Then there's sticking two fingers up at your employers, ignoring everything they request, publicly saying 'I don't know what it meant, im so sorry' only for the team boss to come out and say 'bulls**' to everything Vettel said. Hell he's quoted by german media saying he wasn't sorry at all. After his public 'apology'.

Theres ruthless overtaking on rivals. Then there is imbecilic disobedience and isolating yourself to the point where your own employers and Marko cant even defend him.

Schumacher wouldn't have disobeyed Ferrari. He played supporting role to Irvine did he not?

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Re: Petronas Malaysia Grand Prix 2013

Post by kals » 25 Mar 2013, 18:31

What did Webber do at Silverstone in 2011?

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