Airtel Indian Grand Prix 2012

Who will win the Indian Grand Prix?

Sebastian Vettel
11
44%
Fernando Alonso
5
20%
Kimi Raikkonen
4
16%
Lewis Hamilton
2
8%
Mark Webber
0
No votes
Jenson Button
1
4%
Other
2
8%
 
Total votes: 25

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F1EA
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Re: Airtel Indian Grand Prix 2012

Post by F1EA » 29 Oct 2012, 17:15

Well, Hamilton was not able to take Webber (and remember, Lewis was setting fastest laps, so he had pace)... Shows that Alonso didnt just breezed by. Well, the straightline speed helped, but the hard part in this race was to be able to follow and get close enough on the turns sections. However... a healthy Red Bull would have been unbeatable. Period.

Furthermore... as Alonso shut some mouths on the reporters... he didnt have DRS on the firt lap. The reason he could get past them was because he was able to get a double tow, and the fighting Mclarens spent some time dealing with eachother; so he was able to capitalise on those two factors. The pass on Jenson was not that hard considering Hamilton was able to do an easy pass on Jenson. Maybe Jenson had more wing or shorter last gear? who knows, who cares. They got past him.

As for the car itself. It is not the worst. It was VERY bad on the irst races, but because everyone was confused Ferrari managed a few good results through good drive and not making team mistakes.

Later on... Ferrari improved, BUT it is not faster than Red Bull and it is hit & miss versus Mclaren. But also, Mclaren have had other problems, so it could be Mclaren is actually faster. Who knows, who cares. They are trailing Ferrari.

Fact is: to beat Red Bull and Vettel, Ferrari must improve. There's credit to Vettel and RB there, because they are not making any mistakes.

But neither the fans, nor the team, nor Alonso have claimed they are drivig an HRT. ;)

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Re: Airtel Indian Grand Prix 2012

Post by Treacle » 29 Oct 2012, 17:37

F1EA wrote:Furthermore... as Alonso shut some mouths on the reporters... he didnt have DRS on the firt lap. The reason he could get past them was because he was able to get a double tow, and the fighting Mclarens spent some time dealing with eachother; so he was able to capitalise on those two factors. The pass on Jenson was not that hard considering Hamilton was able to do an easy pass on Jenson. Maybe Jenson had more wing or shorter last gear? who knows, who cares. They got past him.

Of course he didn't have DRS in the first lap (that's why I mentioned that Jenson and Hamilton were busy fighting each other), but if I remember well he had it when he passed Jenson so easily. :) But even if he didn't, that just proves my point even better: that the F2012 is not actually that bad.

F1EA wrote:Later on... Ferrari improved, BUT it is not faster than Red Bull and it is hit & miss versus Mclaren. But also, Mclaren have had other problems, so it could be Mclaren is actually faster. Who knows, who cares. They are trailing Ferrari.

I've never said that it's better than a Red Bull, because it isn't. All I was trying to say is that the team, the drivers and the fans seem to really play down the strength of the F2012. I'm not even sure if it's intentional anymore or they just got used to saying it.

F1EA wrote:But neither the fans, nor the team, nor Alonso have claimed they are drivig an HRT. ;)

I know nobody claimed that. :) I was just trying to point out (with an overexaggeration) that you'd think that Alonso was driving a HRT the way they keep bashing the car. Or not even bashing their own car, rather saying that the Red Bulls are illegal, that they are fighting with Newey not Vettel. As my brother said, you can have the best car, but if you can't drive it, it means nothing. :)

Anyways, I wasn't trying to offend anyone. :)
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Re: Airtel Indian Grand Prix 2012

Post by F1EA » 29 Oct 2012, 18:10

Don't worry, don't think anyone is offended. I'm not at least ;)

But yea, the pass on Jenson was "easy" as both Lewis and Alonso were able to get past. I wouldn't say a breeze because it takes some good effort to actually be within 1 sec in this track.

As for the whole "need to improve", Ferrari is just saying the obvious. It sounds as if they're whinning because the car is not a dog and they keep repeating it... but it still is slower than Red Bull, and even worse, not good enough to challenge them much; and that is their target for the championship. So that's probably why they keep repeating it.

The rest i think is mostly mind games. They have to demoralize Vettel somehow to get him to either make mistakes or be tentative... So far it's working the fans much more than its working Vettel hehehe

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Re: Airtel Indian Grand Prix 2012

Post by tderias » 30 Oct 2012, 11:03

@Treacle
1: Ferrari's standards have been set very high since they won all those championships with Michael. So a car that is 3rd best in most races is a slow car by their standards.
2: You are saying the F2012 isn't that bad because you are looking at Alonso results. But maybe the car's real performance is that which is displayed by Massa. If Massa is regarded as an average driver, then that's exactly what you need to test a car and see where it stands on the grid. Maybe Alonso is over-performing the car. Surely, if you want to evaluate a car's performance, you have to look at both cars, not only 1.
3: 'You can have the best car, but if you can't drive it, it means nothing.' True. But when you get to the level of F1, you have already proven than you can drive a car. We're talking about the best 24 drivers in the world here, and all of them can drive their cars I assure you.
4: All the discussions on this forum are in good fun, so don't worry about people getting offended :)

@Mileso
Oh I'll definitely say Red Bull were the best team when they win this championship, but whether I'll say Vettel was the best driver still remains to be seen. Let's wait and see :p

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Re: Airtel Indian Grand Prix 2012

Post by Zack » 30 Oct 2012, 12:38

iceman1 wrote:I can see Zack there :p

where? :)

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Re: Airtel Indian Grand Prix 2012

Post by donald29 » 30 Oct 2012, 17:23

http://www.f1zone.net/news/alonso-furio ... dia/16451/

I hope this is true. I have an image of Alonso with his phone screaming 'I'll do it! I'll press submit!'

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Re: Airtel Indian Grand Prix 2012

Post by F1EA » 30 Oct 2012, 17:39

donald29 wrote:http://www.f1zone.net/news/alonso-furious-at-ferrari-in-india/16451/

I hope this is true. I have an image of Alonso with his phone screaming 'I'll do it! I'll press submit!'


LOL
I follow Alonso on twitter and this is ABSOLUTELY not the kind of things he posts...

Media is funny.
Alonso says: "... at the moment it seems were are not only racing against Vettel, but against Newey's car as well. Because they come 1 and 2..." (or sonething along those lines)

Headlines say: "Alonso says he is racing Newey"

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Re: Airtel Indian Grand Prix 2012

Post by mikhailv » 30 Oct 2012, 18:05

donald29 wrote:http://www.f1zone.net/news/alonso-furious-at-ferrari-in-india/16451/

I hope this is true. I have an image of Alonso with his phone screaming 'I'll do it! I'll press submit!'


XD

He tweets philosophical samurai stuff. Its cool but funny at the same time.

More serious note, I cant blame him at all. Pat Fry is a d**k anyway. How he can criticise either Ferrari driver the past few races is beyond me. Both are doing their limit, fernandos just appears to be more than what Massa can, but Massa has been superb upto yet and I hope to god he carries this form on.

Ferrari IMO are getting complacent. The Alonso factor is making them think 'we only need a few tenths here' well no, you dont. you need half a second. Alonso is making the difference, stop thinking the car isnt too bad, because its not good enough or on par with RB. when it is, then you can be complacent. Right now, youve got parts that are doing ok, but theres been no big package since what, May/june? Even Demonty isnt that happy with development.

Alonso's newey shot was as Ferrari, it was telling them 'come on, im not racing vettel im racing Newey, he is out designing us tenfold, and you lot need to get your arses together NOW.'

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Re: Airtel Indian Grand Prix 2012

Post by Treacle » 01 Nov 2012, 17:56

tderias wrote:2: You are saying the F2012 isn't that bad because you are looking at Alonso results. But maybe the car's real performance is that which is displayed by Massa. If Massa is regarded as an average driver, then that's exactly what you need to test a car and see where it stands on the grid. Maybe Alonso is over-performing the car. Surely, if you want to evaluate a car's performance, you have to look at both cars, not only 1.

Well, I was looking at both their performances, and that's why - especially lately when Massa is doing a much better job - I don't understand why they seem so adamant about saying the F2012 is bad. But if they mean compared to their usual self, then it does make sense.
Also, it seems funny that Massa and Webber are only mentioned, when people try to prove that the F2012 sucks (i.e. look at Massa, he is struggling) or that the RB8 is unbeatable (i.e. "even Webber can make it to the first row").


tderias wrote:3: 'You can have the best car, but if you can't drive it, it means nothing.' True. But when you get to the level of F1, you have already proven than you can drive a car. We're talking about the best 24 drivers in the world here, and all of them can drive their cars I assure you.

Of course it means something else on this level. But let's be honest, you need to feel the car to be able to bring out the best of it, and I'm sure we can all agree on this one. :) Maybe Alonso would be struggling with a Red Bull, as well as Vettel would be struggling with a Ferrari (and I'm not talking about this year's models, but in general). It might be a bad example, but I hope you get what I mean.

Anyways, I wonder if Ferrari-fans were so hard on Newey if he worked for the Italian Team... :D
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Re: Airtel Indian Grand Prix 2012

Post by antyk » 01 Nov 2012, 21:40

Treacle wrote:Anyways, I wonder if Ferrari-fans were so hard on Newey if he worked for the Italian Team... :D


yeah exactly... few days ago a saw an interview with some italian commentators (or journalists) and they were all whining about alonso fighting newey not vettel. They didn't talk this kind of stuff 10 years ago, when schumacher was just dominating everybody :zz:
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Re: Airtel Indian Grand Prix 2012

Post by Adam » 01 Nov 2012, 21:49

The Ferrari-Alonso thing was eventually an invention by some "attention sheeker" from the Italian press who knew he would attract a lot of attention.

“An argument with Pat Fry after the race in India? A nice invention from someone in the Italian media. It was quite creative to be honest! Now or later, I will speak to him to see how he invented this. We know and it’s a fact that we are slower than Red Bull: we all agree, me the team, our fans, everyone knows. We are very united in our efforts to fix this situation.”


Treacle wrote:Well, I was looking at both their performances, and that's why - especially lately when Massa is doing a much better job - I don't understand why they seem so adamant about saying the F2012 is bad. But if they mean compared to their usual self, then it does make sense.

[...]



Who are "them"? Saying the car needs improvements (which is true) doesn't mean it's being said the car is bad because obviously it is not. At least from Ferrari and from Alonso what it's been said all the time is that they need to improve.

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Re: Airtel Indian Grand Prix 2012

Post by Treacle » 01 Nov 2012, 21:59

Adam wrote:Who are "them"? Saying the car needs improvements (which is true) doesn't mean it's being said the car is bad because obviously it is not. At least from Ferrari and from Alonso what it's been said all the time is that they need to improve.


You are right, the fans are more stubborn when it comes to this "excuse". :) But I did read even a couple of weeks ago interviews in which Alonso and (I think it was) Montezemolo said that they are losing, because they have a bad car that can't deliver good results (had it not been for Alonso). But you know, it might be lost in translation. I mean if they said "the F2012 needs improvement to catch the RB8" then it is true and I couldn't agree with it any more... But it could be translated to "we have a bad car" in Hungarian. They basically mean the same thing, but the latter has a bad connotation to it.
It's just I read more "we have a bad car" than "we need to improve" throughout the whole season. But since I don't speak Italian and my Spanish is quite rusty, well... :D
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