2012 Shell Belgian Grand Prix

[mikhailv]

Didnt alonso politically say that the GP2 playstation generation needs to calm down and something needs to be done?

[phil1993]

Didnt alonso politically say that the GP2 playstation generation needs to calm down and something needs to be done?

Yes

, I think that certain drivers should try and take fewer risks at the start: it’s a bit of a tendency currently in the junior formulae, but it would be better, if right from the start of their career, they got used to respecting more strictly the rules relating to behaviour on track.

I fully agree. I'm increasingly watching GP2/3 with one eye closed and wincing.

Also, one of the stewards's surname is 'Chopping'. Ha!

[mikhailv]

Didnt alonso politically say that the GP2 playstation generation needs to calm down and something needs to be done?

Yes

, I think that certain drivers should try and take fewer risks at the start: it’s a bit of a tendency currently in the junior formulae, but it would be better, if right from the start of their career, they got used to respecting more strictly the rules relating to behaviour on track.

I fully agree. I'm increasingly watching GP2/3 with one eye closed and wincing.

Its crazy, it really is. I mean, theyre just running each other off the road, ramming, crashing. Jason Plato and Mat neal look like nancy boys compared to these children.

Problem is, and I think we talked about it before; there is such a little talent pool now, just a few in GP2, that the options are getting a driver who brings in a huge wad of cash over talent, like Maldanado ($29million correct?). So where do we get future drivers from? I mean, look at the top teams on the grid, and aside from hamilton and vettel, Alonso, Button, Webber, Massa and Kimi are over 30. Hamilton is 28 next year isnt he? vettels only 25, and youve got people older than Seb driving like idiots.

[phil1993]

Most of the grid is good. It's easier to make a fast driver less erratic than a slow driver fast. If I was running Williams, I'd retain Pastor over Bruno, even though I do like Bruno...

There are talented young drivers out there. But a lot of them use these tactics as it is their only choice. Driver A uses it, forcing Driver B to be like that too. It spirals and it needs to be stopped.

You always get the next generation anyway. This F1 field is young compared to a lot of former drivers. Damon Hill was 32 when he made his debut, Mansell 39 when he won the title. Perez is 22, Pic 21, Vergne 22, Ricciardo 23. They are very good drivers. There's also the likes of Robin Frijns and Jules Bianchi in FR3.5

[mikhailv]

Most of the grid is good. It's easier to make a fast driver less erratic than a slow driver fast. If I was running Williams, I'd retain Pastor over Bruno, even though I do like Bruno...

There are talented young drivers out there. But a lot of them use these tactics as it is their only choice. Driver A uses it, forcing Driver B to be like that too. It spirals and it needs to be stopped.

You always get the next generation anyway. This F1 field is young compared to a lot of former drivers. Damon Hill was 32 when he made his debut, Mansell 39 when he won the title. Perez is 22, Pic 21, Vergne 22, Ricciardo 23. They are very good drivers. There's also the likes of Robin Frijns and Jules Bianchi in FR3.5

See, Maldanado is such an ar****le. but he reminds me so much of Juan pablo Montoya, which is why I do like him. I just wish he wasn't so erratic because he is genuinely fast, I mean Barcelona he blew everyone away and it was supreme. He just keeps getting caught in everything everytime.

I still say valencia was..... well Maldanado caused the crash, but Hamilton shoulnt have raced him. Infact, Hamilton raced Maldanado much harder than Grosjean; when RG went around him, Hamilton left alot more room, but with maldanado I think lewi thought the same as PM; Screw you im fighting you to death. And they both collided out of stubborness. PM refused to back down and attack again, but lewis refused to back down and fight after he was falling off the cliff of dover. He NEEDS to calm down because he has ability, and raw speed.

I just worry about where future young drivers will fit. I mean, I cant see the grid in the next 2-3 years losing Massa, Alonso, Webber, Vettel, Kimi, Grosjean, Maldanado, Raikkonen, Rosberg, Hulkenberg, Di resta, Kovalainen, Perez, Kobayashi, Hamilton and Button. Thats 16 drivers, that i cant see leaving F1 until at least the end of 2014. That means only 8 seats are available, and I reckon marussia and HRT will drop out.

Theres so much older talent, that new talent has no room.

[donald29]

We all know Massa's position within the Ferrari team, but it was telling to me that after Alonso's retirement Stefano Domenicalli was in the Ferrari garage speaking to him not on the pitwall when one of his drivers was still in the race. Like (but not as bad as) when Briatore sometimes left the track during the race when Schumacher / Alonso was out. Out of favour, probably out of the team.

Still a solid race from Felipe and he did pull off an important move at the end on Webber which helps Alonso as it takes points off one of his rivals.

I also thought today was one of Vettel's best drives. He pulled off some really nice moves including the one on Webber.

[Edi96]

@willbuxton: "Last time I saw JDam, he was driving out of the circuit. 2 hours later reliable sources tell me he was back at track having Lotus seat fit."

[eleanor]

FIA website is down.

I want to read Oana's questions in the PC

Q: (Oana Popoiu - F1Zone.net) Kimi, for the first time you failed to win a Belgian race that you have finished. How does that feel and do you think that double DRS would have helped you to gain a better position today?
KR: Well, we couldn't use it because Friday was such bad weather, but it's better third than not to finish, so OK, we didn't win but we didn't have the speed today so we didn't deserve to win either. In the last three races we had the speed in races where you cannot overtake and here we just didn't have the speed. I will take third place, I'm pretty happy to finish on the podium given how difficult the car was handling and how tricky it was throughout the whole race.

Q: (Oana Popoiu - F1Zone.net) Sebastian, did you think you would be on the podium today after starting tenth?
SV: It's difficult to know before the race, but I was quite confident we have a strong pace. As I touched on, the car was very good on Friday and Saturday morning and not on Saturday afternoon, but I was reasonably confident and knew that everything is possible here, because you can overtake, probably better than Hungary. I was looking forward to finishing on the podium.

[mikhailv]

I agree with Eddie Jordan; Redbull were very lucky today. Losing both saubers, Maldanado, Alonso, hamilton and Grosjean meant an easy ride for Redbull and Kimi. I reckon those cars wouldve been faster than both RBs and Kimi.

[sportingcp]

Great job from Button and Vettel with a superb drive. Was disappointing with him in Qualifying but in the race he showed his skills. Kimi did what he could with the problems he had (setup, KERS). Lotus really need the DDRS for Monza. So, I´m the only one who thinks Grosjean penalty is a bit exagerated? I mean, i can list 100 moves like that from other drivers, closing the door don´t giving space in order to defend the position. The bad thing is that it happened in the start and in a track like Spa that the straight in the start is very small well it ended like that.

But of course it was Grosjean fault and I accept the ban because he should be more careful and at least look at the mirrors and this was not the first time. But I don´t think this warning is just for Romain. Just to give some examples I remember similar moves (and there are others of course), Rosberg at Bahrain (against Ham and Alo), Button vs Hamilton (Canada last year), Schumi vs Rubens (Hungary). And what about Hamilton in the past seasons? How many incidents were he involved that were his fault? A lot... In the past season in every 2 races he had 1 that ended in an accident with Massa. What about Maldonado or Petrov for example. I remember Maldonado for example with a move that was on purpose against Perez, in Monaco! Wasn´t that more worth a ban?

Well now the precedent is open, let´s see what will happen from now on. The more important thing is that no-one is hurt, specially Alonso who could have ended with an injury, glad he is okay.

Oh and i´m a bit sad for Sauber. It was a big opportunity for them to score a lot of points, a podium. They were very unlucky.

[mikhailv]

Looking more and more, im thinking Grosjean doesnt deserve a race ban.

I mean.... Lewis bogged down, and grosjean was most of the way along side him, he misjudged and thought lewis would back off because of the speed Grosjean was carrying. I mean, imagine the collsion didnt happen. Where would Hamilton have braked and ended up? Where would Grosjean have braked and ended up? Not saying its lewis' fault because it clearly isn't.

Its just, I think Grosjean expected lewis to back off like Maldanado did, and he didnt. I dont agree with the if youve got your front wing to the rear wheel malarky because Lewis wouldve had right of way, yet Grosjean was streaking past him. Such a stupid ruling.

but yeah, I dont think it warrants a ban thinking about it.

[KevC]

"I did a mistake and I misjudged the gap with Lewis. I was sure I was in front of him. So a small mistake made a big incident.

"I didn't change my line, I went from left to right. I was not really wanting to put anyone in the wall - I'm not here to stop the race in the first corner. I'm very, very sorry and I'm glad that nobody is hurt.

"But I have to say it is a very, very hard decision to hear."

Grosjean, who has been involved in five early-race incidents this year, said he was more angry with himself than with the penalty, but added that the accidents were not all caused by over-aggression.

"I did too many," he said. "If there is more than one then that is too many, I agree. But as I say it is not always the same. It's not over-aggressive by braking 200 metres too late, it's just most of the time misjudgement of the space I have in front or the space I have on the side.

"It's true that we don't see much in the mirrors and stuff like that and it goes very quick at the start.

"I was to be honest 100 per cent sure I was in front of Lewis but I was not so I need to rethink about my view of the car.

"I am the most angry at myself to have misjudged the gap with Lewis's car."

Grosjean said that his focus now was on analysing what led to the ban and to ensure that the rest of the season continues without error, adding that he hoped it would not affect his chances of keeping his drive with Lotus in 2012.

"It is too much. I know that. Some are not my fault, but I will analyse that and I will try to not repeat it in the seven last races," he said.

"For sure I don't want to do any more [crashes] by the end of the season. So I will work, I will analyse as much as I can to try and avoid those. Some were misfortune, some were my mistake but now it is time to finish that."

[sportingcp]

What Grosjean says sums up everything very well. He admits he made a mistake, and from what he said I can see that he is intelligent and will be more careful from now on. But like he said also "a small mistake made a big incident" that´s also true. We must understand also that this happens very fast (the start) and sometimes some little mistakes can happen in a less experience driver. He is young, and this errors may occurr in my opinion but until he has more experience he needs to be more careful with some details, but admitting the mistakes and trying to not repeat, is a good way of getting better and solve the problem (unlike Maldonado does). Also he gave an honest apologize. I hope he will make a good comeback in Singapore with no accidents and a solid race.

[mikhailv]

What Grosjean says sums up everything very well. He admits he made a mistake, and from what he said I can see that he is intelligent and will be more careful from now on. But like he said also "a small mistake made a big incident" that´s also true. We must understand also that this happens very fast (the start) and sometimes some little mistakes can happen in a less experience driver. He is young, and this errors may occurr in my opinion but until he has more experience he needs to be more careful with some details, but admitting the mistakes and trying to not repeat, is a good way of getting better and solve the problem (unlike Maldonado does). Also he gave an honest apologize. I hope he will make a good comeback in Singapore with no accidents and a solid race.

Problem is, Grosjean can say all that but it doesnt change the fact he has had 7 start lap incidents. Its too late saying it all now when he nearly decapitates Alonso, he's been doing it all season and has yet to learn from it. if it takes nearly killing someone to drill it in, somethings wrong.

I heard on another forum by some conspiracy theorists, that lewis didnt even bother to brake he just kept his foot on the accelerator into Grosjean. I presume its one of these people;

[iceman1]

Looking more and more, im thinking Grosjean doesnt deserve a race ban.

I mean.... Lewis bogged down, and grosjean was most of the way along side him, he misjudged and thought lewis would back off because of the speed Grosjean was carrying. I mean, imagine the collsion didnt happen. Where would Hamilton have braked and ended up? Where would Grosjean have braked and ended up? Not saying its lewis' fault because it clearly isn't.

Its just, I think Grosjean expected lewis to back off like Maldanado did, and he didnt. I dont agree with the if youve got your front wing to the rear wheel malarky because Lewis wouldve had right of way, yet Grosjean was streaking past him. Such a stupid ruling.

but yeah, I dont think it warrants a ban thinking about it.

They gave him that penalty because it's not the first time he does something like that, so they want him to learn from his mistakes. Perhaps taking Hamilton and Alonso out had a big effect on that decision. Looking back at it, actually it's quite similar to Hamilton/Kobayashi accident (different angle) from last year but with more cars.

Raikkonen