2012 Shell Belgian Grand Prix

[Mitsuro Sano]

Actually the last person to have a one race ban was Felipe Massa in 2002. He was banned of the US GP for that reason :



The same exact move as Grosjean, with minor consequences, but still he was banned for one race.

Having seen that, for me the one race ban for Grosjean is deserved, as it's not the first time he is involved in race start incidents.

He reminds me of Petrov in 2010 when he had two accidents at the start of the Canadian GP and the Japanese GP.

[mikhailv]

That was a pretty pathetic penalty.

By that Rate, hamilton wouldve never won a championship in 2008, and countless drivers wouldve lost their licences by now.

[mikhailv]

Looking more and more, im thinking Grosjean doesnt deserve a race ban.

I mean.... Lewis bogged down, and grosjean was most of the way along side him, he misjudged and thought lewis would back off because of the speed Grosjean was carrying. I mean, imagine the collsion didnt happen. Where would Hamilton have braked and ended up? Where would Grosjean have braked and ended up? Not saying its lewis' fault because it clearly isn't.

Its just, I think Grosjean expected lewis to back off like Maldanado did, and he didnt. I dont agree with the if youve got your front wing to the rear wheel malarky because Lewis wouldve had right of way, yet Grosjean was streaking past him. Such a stupid ruling.

but yeah, I dont think it warrants a ban thinking about it.

They gave him that penalty because it's not the first time he does something like that, so they want him to learn from his mistakes. Perhaps taking Hamilton and Alonso out had a big effect on that decision. Looking back at it, actually it's quite similar to Hamilton/Kobayashi accident (different angle) from last year but with more cars.

Raikkonen

Well, coulthard did the same as grosjean and he nearly took wurz' hands off, if it wasnt for experience telling him to let go of the steering wheel;



I think the problem with Grosjean was the fact he had 7 incidents at the start of a GP. But the problem is, Maldanado has had 12 penalties this year yet nothing like a Ban.

[KevC]

I'm still waiting for someone to post up a list of what these terrible 7 incidents are that Grosjean has had. Most will be nothing more than a rubbed wheel or a lost nose and I'm sure you could draw up a similar list for a lot of drivers on the grid.

[mikhailv]

I'm still waiting for someone to post up a list of what these terrible 7 incidents are that Grosjean has had. Most will be nothing more than a rubbed wheel or a lost nose and I'm sure you could draw up a similar list for a lot of drivers on the grid.

Doesnt matter if the incidents are terrible or not, its the fact he gets into one and doest often have a clean race. its the fact he is having incidents at almost every event, its as bad as maldanado but at least maldanado didnt nearly behead another driver.

Australia; collide with maldanado
Malaysia; hits schumacher
Malaysia; Spins into the gravel
Barcelona; Contact with perez
Barcelona; Caused an avoidable incident with Senna
Monaco; Drives into Schumacher
Britain; Collided with Di Resta
Hockenheim; first lap wing loss again

[donald29]

Hockenheim was a really stupid one seeing as he drove into Massa who had already lost his front wing. I wouldn't say it's been over aggression that's been the problem but he's had really poor spatial awareness. He doesn't seem have a clue where other cars and parts of his are.

[mikhailv]

Hockenheim was a really stupid one seeing as he drove into Massa who had already lost his front wing. I wouldn't say it's been over aggression that's been the problem but he's had really poor spatial awareness. He doesn't seem have a clue where other cars and parts of his are.

Yeah. They arent dramatic or serious half of them, but just like Maldanado, its continual incidents happening. Poor general awareness.

Maldanado is over ambitious ofcourse and its the same with him, most of the time he is at fault, but some penalties are stupid like the one with Di Resta and with Hamilton. Purposely driving into Lewis and Perez warranted a race ban, but the FIA needs to come down hard.

[KevC]

But like I say, unless you draw up a similar list of all the times all the other drivers have been in to the pits for a new nose or made contact with another driver, it's meaningless.

[mikhailv]

But like I say, unless you draw up a similar list of all the times all the other drivers have been in to the pits for a new nose or made contact with another driver, it's meaningless.

Well, no. Maldanado and Grosjean have the highest count this year. Pretty much a fact. All you need to do is goto the autosport forum and look at the compiled list.

Theres only Fernando Alonso, Paul Di Resta and Timo Glock who have not had a penalty this season. Every other driver has had a penalty. Schumacher has the 2nd most, but thats mostly mechanical faults. Maldanado has the most driver incidents.

[François]

Bad move from Grosjean. I think the penalty is entirely justified based on this incident alone, even though it was indeed a relatively minor mistake that triggered it all. Unfortunately, this is open wheel racing and the slightest touch of wheels can result in cars flying around and risks of serious injuries.

Having said that, I can't help but feel that what motivated the penalty wasn't the driver's mistake but its spectacular consequences. Just one year ago, same place, Bruno Senna outbraked himself by a mile down into La source and collected the pack at full speed, which I consider somewhat more serious an error than Grosjean's; but he only hit one car, and at such an angle that it didn't result in a nasty incident. Only earned a drive through for all his work, if my memory serves me right. Which I don't find adequate: you shouldn't wait for dramatic consequences to penalize big mistakes.

I don't agree with the assertion that Grosjean's penalty is a natural consequence of dangerous driving throughout the season. Most of the incidents mikhailv mentioned were rather minor and (adequately) earned him no penalty. Malaysia was clearly his mistake, and a big one; but it's unfair to blame the Monaco crash solely on him, as Alonso's move was borderline and put him in a tricky position.

As has been said, the guy has realized his mistake and apologized appropriately (which is more than can be said for other drivers involved in incidents, who apparently are never at fault and always getting unfair penalties ). He's still having an incredible season. Looking forward to seeing him back after Monza.

[KevC]

But like I say, unless you draw up a similar list of all the times all the other drivers have been in to the pits for a new nose or made contact with another driver, it's meaningless.

Well, no. Maldanado and Grosjean have the highest count this year. Pretty much a fact. All you need to do is goto the autosport forum and look at the compiled list.

Theres only Fernando Alonso, Paul Di Resta and Timo Glock who have not had a penalty this season. Every other driver has had a penalty. Schumacher has the 2nd most, but thats mostly mechanical faults. Maldanado has the most driver incidents.

I'm not talking about penalties. In fact Grosjean didn't have any. I'm talking about the number of times each driver has been involved in some sort of contact. For his 7 incidents to have any relevance, you need to know how many other drivers have done the same. For instance, if, for example, Kovaleinen has had 10 then the stat makes no sense to single out Grosjean as being a terrible driver with no spacial awareness.

Like I said before, I'm not saying he shouldn't have a ban for Spa, I'm just saying you can't single him out as a bad driver without a scale to put it on.

[mikhailv]

But like I say, unless you draw up a similar list of all the times all the other drivers have been in to the pits for a new nose or made contact with another driver, it's meaningless.

Well, no. Maldanado and Grosjean have the highest count this year. Pretty much a fact. All you need to do is goto the autosport forum and look at the compiled list.

Theres only Fernando Alonso, Paul Di Resta and Timo Glock who have not had a penalty this season. Every other driver has had a penalty. Schumacher has the 2nd most, but thats mostly mechanical faults. Maldanado has the most driver incidents.

I'm not talking about penalties. In fact Grosjean didn't have any. I'm talking about the number of times each driver has been involved in some sort of contact. For his 7 incidents to have any relevance, you need to know how many other drivers have done the same. For instance, if, for example, Kovaleinen has had 10 then the stat makes no sense to single out Grosjean as being a terrible driver with no spacial awareness.

Like I said before, I'm not saying he shouldn't have a ban for Spa, I'm just saying you can't single him out as a bad driver without a scale to put it on.

But im not saying he is a bad driver. Im saying, like maldanado, he is having too much contact and collisions fault or not, just like Pastor.

The fact is, these are two driver who have had the most contact this season. Grosjean has had few penalties but he has made too many misjudgements about his available space and car width and made contact far too often. How he got away with Barcelona, I dont know. There is no scale apart from whos getting involved in things most and malda/Romain are the top two.

Both have some damn good speed and they also have a bright future, IF they tone it down massively. Montoya had flair and spice, but he never did what pastor did. They are driving like the GP2 generation, thats the problem.

You wouldve thought, being 26 and 27, older than vettel and the same age as Hamilton, that they wouldnt be crazy. I mean, imagine how 19 year olds would be in F1, like when Alonso was 19, Vettel 20, Massa 21, Raikkonen and schumacher was 22.

These kids would be lethal behind the wheel, the only exception right now is Sergio Perez. 21 his debut was, and I seriously think, put him in the Lotus or Williams and he would be a miles better driver, he has the natural speed and talent without the ability to constantly get into collisions and find trouble.

[iceman1]

@alanbaldwinf1: Williams explain Pastor's jump start: "His fingers slipped from the clutch paddle by mistake".

[phil1993]

Kind of ironic that the greatest driver in the field, Alonso, has such poor luck at the greatest circuit of them all!

[tderias]

Ok, this might seem crazy, but hear me out till the end. I think YOU HAVE TO take the consequences of an incident to help you judge what penalty to issue.

Look at it this way; a hired killer is assigned to assassinate a certain target. He finds the target amidst a crowd, aims his sights, and takes the shot. The bullet rips through the victim, and also makes contact with a nearby fire extinguisher that explodes and kills 4 more civilians in the process. Now, if that killer gets caught and trialed in court, do you think the charges against him would only be concerned with the fact that he killed that specific target, or will they also include the loss of four other innocent civilians?

I know I've gone all Hollywood on this one, but the story is very similar to what we saw happen in the race if you can read between the lines. The way I see it, Grosjean's domino effect that followed his initial mistake must be taken into account.