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apple
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Re: Off-topic thread for rally fans

Post by apple » 05 Jul 2010, 11:36

Dracaena wrote:
apple wrote:
Dracaena wrote:
apple wrote:I have here 5 adorable kittens..even men of the family just have to stop their working for a moment just to see how the kittens play.. :p

Awww, I'm so jealous you have no idea. But where can I go to watch kittens play ::oops:;?

Where do you live? Just get yourself into the car and drive here.. :n

I live on the west coast. I've just assumed that you live somewhere near Helsinki (more precisely: near Wolfie :O).

I've actually thought of asking the local animal shelter if I could go there and pet every cat they have :). But I don't think they would be too exited, they're not a petting zoo after all. And the problem with an actual petting zoo is that the cats there run around free (and away from me) :lol:.

Nope, I live just on the backyard of Lahti, at Nastola or precisely at Iitti but on the border of Nastola. Its about 25 kilometers here to Lahti. I would give you a little kitten if you wanted and could take one. We have here long haired light grey " Rape" who is just so humand lover. He comes to my arms. turns himself on his back and starts to "kehrätä". :O

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Re: Off-topic thread for rally fans

Post by valuk » 05 Jul 2010, 11:38

Dracaena wrote:I can't comment on this since I'm not familiar with this statistic of childless women working less years than men. And what was the point you were trying to make? That they work less because they're lazy :huh:?


Wow, wow I never said they are lazy. My english vocabulary on the subject is not so good but I will try again.
Here is the exaple for Britain (from http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62O0TZ20100325) on legal conditions for retirement.


========== BRITAIN ==========

Average exit age: 62.6

Male: 63.6

Female: 61.7

Statutory retirement age

Male: 65

Female: 60

The retirement age for women will rise from 60 to 65 by 2020 and will increase to 68 for both sexes by 2046
.

As you can see women work less years, well not necessary less years but they retire younger. (i guess this will change in 2046^^^). Since they retire younger than men but live longer they get more from their retirement insurence. If anything they should work longer than men not less. Where is equality here?
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them."

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Dracaena
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Re: Off-topic thread for rally fans

Post by Dracaena » 05 Jul 2010, 11:47

apple wrote:Nope, I live just on the backyard of Lahti, at Nastola or precisely at Iitti but on the border of Nastola. Its about 25 kilometers here to Lahti. I would give you a little kitten if you wanted and could take one. We have here long haired light grey " Rape" who is just so humand lover. He comes to my arms. turns himself on his back and starts to "kehrätä". :O

Hmmm, the non-Finns may be a little shocked about a kitten called "Rape" :lol:. He sounds awesome, sigh... Having a cat is a dream of mine but my apartment is too small for that. Don't feel too bad for me, I could definitely move to a bigger apartment if I really wanted to, I've just become fond of this little closet I've lived in for years. But maybe next year...

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Re: Off-topic thread for rally fans

Post by momo » 05 Jul 2010, 11:47

Dracaena wrote:
apple wrote:I have here 5 adorable kittens..even men of the family just have to stop their working for a moment just to see how the kittens play.. :p

Awww, I'm so jealous you have no idea. But where can I go to watch kittens play ::oops:;?

We have twelve cats, and they are free to come and go into the house as they wish!
We love them all so much! :blush:

Their names are:

Nerone,
Mamma Grigia
Nerina
Stella
Luna
Coccolone
Cenerino
Striscia
Nerino
Gaia (in the picture)
Nova
Tom.

:O

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Re: Off-topic thread for rally fans

Post by cformula1 » 05 Jul 2010, 11:59

valuk wrote:
Dracaena wrote:I can't comment on this since I'm not familiar with this statistic of childless women working less years than men. And what was the point you were trying to make? That they work less because they're lazy :huh:?


Wow, wow I never said they are lazy. My english vocabulary on the subject is not so good but I will try again.
Here is the exaple for Britain (from http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62O0TZ20100325) on legal conditions for retirement.


========== BRITAIN ==========

Average exit age: 62.6

Male: 63.6

Female: 61.7

Statutory retirement age

Male: 65

Female: 60

The retirement age for women will rise from 60 to 65 by 2020 and will increase to 68 for both sexes by 2046
.

As you can see women work less years, well not necessary less years but they retire younger. (i guess this will change in 2046^^^). Since they retire younger than men but live longer they get more from their retirement insurence. If anything they should work longer than men not less. Where is equality here?

Equality is a delicate balancing act. It could be said that women deserve to retire younger as they are often coerced/pressured/forced to work more than men in the household on top of working a job, and that the subsequent longer hours worked will end up being somewhat equal to men upon retirement.
For example:
If a man works on average 3250 hours a year (about 9 per day, including weekends and holidays) over 45 years, then the total working hours in his lifetime would equal around 150 000.
If a woman works on average 4350 hours a year (about 12 per day, including weekends and holidays) over 38 years, then the total working hours in her lifetime would equal around 165 000.
The difference is 15,000, but that is compensated by the fact that women worked longer hours and thus suffered more physically and mentally.
Off-Topic: show
I'm a man, yet I'm defending the women's view! :lol:
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Wolfie
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Re: Off-topic thread for rally fans

Post by Wolfie » 05 Jul 2010, 12:02

valuk wrote:Oh, boo hoo! Women in Afganistan have reasons to complain, but not in the western world. I won´t say that there aren´t any problems but to say that women are not equal is BS. Why don´t women want to be equal and work as many years as men to get a pension (when they retire). Women live longer and yet they work less. Why is that?
About the hippie-movement. Hippies are the laziest, work hating douchebags the world has ever seen. Why would taking drugs, sitting on your ass and having unprotected sex save the problems of the world. That just doesn´t makes sense. For some women the idea of freedom was not wearing a bra and not shaving you armpits. :huh: If you think that this makes women free then the women in Afganistan have been free for hundrets of years.

I think the real problem is in respecting each other. Man (or woman) should respect the work the other is doing at home, with the family. Stay at home moms (or dads) are many times looked down upon by those who work in "real" jobs. But they have a real job-raising children, the same children we hear all the time are our true wealth and yet we let them be raised by their teachers, nannys, the streets...just not their parents.


Boohoo back to you :lol:

Who says women work less? At some point men want to have children and the woman has to give up her career, stay off work and possibly never getting back to work, depending on what the husband wants also.

The hippie-movement took many directions but one thing it did was that it broke traditional beliefs and opened up a possibility for women to become independent - birth control being the most important one.

Women's independency can be a tough thing to swallow for some men since they can't just expect women to be under their power anymore. The jerk who stole my dog called me afterwards and gave me an ultimatum: either I come back and start serving him fulltime, go to work, give him money (like earlier) and do all the cleaning, food, shopping and other responsibilites without saying one word - or I'll never see my dog anymore. See how it's there hidden in some men, the ancient thought of control and power even though circumstances are completely different and would definitely need a re-evaluation. And those things he demanded from me where the things I was unhappy with during our relationship but here's the best part: his dear sister came to give us (me) some advice and guidance: "You should get children, that will solve all your problems" :rofl:

But you are right, the real problem is respect. It's alarming how things have taken a turn in Finland for example. Even young girls have become very demanding and the respect for men is fading. Women can have one-night-stands and refuse to start a relationships whereas earlier it was the other way around, men were running away from commitment.

Like I said, I wait for a balance, now it has gone to the other extreme here and men are more like toy-boys to some :n

Never fall in love with a Finnish girl, never :n

Unless you can't put yourself in a woman's position then you won't understand Acropolis for example. It's a long long long generation and without knowing anybody's history I suspect that many women here have witnessed with their own eyes how there are some things, even in the Western world, where we hit the 'glassroof'.

Take work for example, one thing that annoys many women is that men have these sauna-meetings where they decide upon things while drinking beer. They even have a name here: The Good Bro' Club. Women in high positions are often seen as a threat and the worst case is if a woman isn't respected as a woman at work then they can change into more masculine and that is not a pretty sight from a man's perspective, I've witnessed it many times.

One man once read a women's magazine and he was shocked over how many expectations are put on women in their own magazines - expectations nobody can meet which leaves with a feeling of inadequacy.

It works both ways. Once some women at work were complaining over the nude pictures and calendars men had in their office rooms and felt bad about it. Complaining wouldn't have done anything so I suggested we do the same, go and shop for some male posters to put in our office rooms.

Here's what happened: Man after man came smiling and happy to my room until they saw the poster - and shrank immediately since they naturally compared themself to the hunk - and lost.

Their reactions weren't nice to watch in the end so I took it down. But I also understood much better how women are exposed to objectification from day to day - in the western world - so no wonder so many women put so much money on their hair and clothes plus are always on a diet.

Things have changed a bit, you see more and more men as models and belive me, it will have an affect on you sooner or later. Once the comparison-game starts, please do your everything to get out of it before you are in for something you are bound to lose at some point since it's based upon an illusion and no matter how goodlooking or fit you are, be sure that there will always be more fitter and more goodlooking men as time goes by. You can't win and for women it's everyday life.

So maybe things start turning around so that the husband doesn't say to his wife when watching some young and beautiful 'why can't you be more like her' into the wife asking the husband 'why can't you be more like him' :n

I've heard so many heartbreaking stories of how what I described above is everyday life :(
To be changed soon - rko281, where are you??? LOL

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Re: Off-topic thread for rally fans

Post by Linda-Anne » 05 Jul 2010, 12:05

Valuk my friend. Maybe Women live longer than men because their bodies have become so used to doing many different jobs, lets just think ......There is working at a paid job, child bearing, child rearing, pastoral care of everyone in the household and probably the countless friends of family members too. Then in a lot of cases they also have the responsibility of looking after an aged parent or in- law. Then there is shopping for the family and catering for their likes and dislikes of food, plus stocking the cupboards and fridge. freezers etc. Cooking, dishwashing, washing and ironing piles of laundry, bed making, dusting and cleaning the house, window washing, gardening, taking children to after school activities, making costumes for plays for the kids, helping them with thier homework. Mentoring said family members, running the hubby and kids anywhere they need to go in the car, often picking them up late at night. Looking after the family pets and taking hubby, kids to doctors when they are sick, Its normally mum who stays up all night with you when you are sick. This is the role of the Western Woman and normally a lot more too. When she retires she often does so on a very small pension especially if she has been working hard all her life in a factory long hours for low pay. Her jobs as a women continue till the day she dies, the childcare normally then becomming the care of her granchildren while her son or daughter works long hours to just exist. The role of a woman in the home is a valuable one and is often underated. Can you honestly belive that a woman should go to work longer than a man?

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Re: Off-topic thread for rally fans

Post by Dracaena » 05 Jul 2010, 12:13

valuk wrote:
Dracaena wrote:I can't comment on this since I'm not familiar with this statistic of childless women working less years than men. And what was the point you were trying to make? That they work less because they're lazy :huh:?


Wow, wow I never said they are lazy. My english vocabulary on the subject is not so good but I will try again.
Here is the exaple for Britain (from http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62O0TZ20100325) on legal conditions for retirement.


========== BRITAIN ==========

Average exit age: 62.6

Male: 63.6

Female: 61.7

Statutory retirement age

Male: 65

Female: 60

The retirement age for women will rise from 60 to 65 by 2020 and will increase to 68 for both sexes by 2046
.

As you can see women work less years, well not necessary less years but they retire younger. (i guess this will change in 2046^^^). Since they retire younger than men but live longer they get more from their retirement insurence. If anything they should work longer than men not less. Where is equality here?

Okay now I understand, you were talking about the statutory retirement age :). Here in Finland the statutory retirement age is the same for both sexes. I don't know the statistic of which sex retires earlier, would actually be interesting to know.

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Re: Off-topic thread for rally fans

Post by valuk » 05 Jul 2010, 12:18

Dracaena wrote:Okay now I understand, you were talking about the statutory retirement age :). Here in Finland the statutory retirement age is the same for both sexes. I don't know the statistic of which sex retires earlier, would actually be interesting to know.


Oh, didn´t know that. But since women live longer they still get more from the retirement fund (but they pay the same as men). I guess it realy pays of to live longer :p
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them."

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Re: Off-topic thread for rally fans

Post by Maria d » 05 Jul 2010, 12:20

Momo, i loved your kitten, that makes me smile :) . i love the names of your cats.
apple i would love to come over and play with the kittens, but i think i live to far away....
my family will not let me even visit a animal shelter...they know i will take them all home with me.
when i know it...........K.Raikkonen

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Re: Off-topic thread for rally fans

Post by valuk » 05 Jul 2010, 12:23

Linda-Anne wrote:Valuk my friend. Maybe Women live longer than men because their bodies have become so used to doing many different jobs, lets just think ......There is working at a paid job, child bearing, child rearing, pastoral care of everyone in the household and probably the countless friends of family members too. Then in a lot of cases they also have the responsibility of looking after an aged parent or in- law. Then there is shopping for the family and catering for their likes and dislikes of food, plus stocking the cupboards and fridge. freezers etc. Cooking, dishwashing, washing and ironing piles of laundry, bed making, dusting and cleaning the house, window washing, gardening, taking children to after school activities, making costumes for plays for the kids, helping them with thier homework. Mentoring said family members, running the hubby and kids anywhere they need to go in the car, often picking them up late at night. Looking after the family pets and taking hubby, kids to doctors when they are sick, Its normally mum who stays up all night with you when you are sick. This is the role of the Western Woman and normally a lot more too. When she retires she often does so on a very small pension especially if she has been working hard all her life in a factory long hours for low pay. Her jobs as a women continue till the day she dies, the childcare normally then becomming the care of her granchildren while her son or daughter works long hours to just exist. The role of a woman in the home is a valuable one and is often underated. Can you honestly belive that a woman should go to work longer than a man?


Women live longer because of genetics (here you win, we lose :O ).
I don´t necesary belive woman should work longer, but I think you/women also don´t have any reason to complain (in this case).
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them."

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Re: Off-topic thread for rally fans

Post by Wolfie » 05 Jul 2010, 12:27

Linda, I feel for you and your vacuum cleaner :hug:

Trust me, you are not alone. Once christmas-present from a bf was kitchen-scissors, kitchen-knife and some other vital things one needs in the kitchen.

And one christmas I got a scanned picture of his old vacuum cleaner my bf wanted to give me - he gave it to me allright but when breaking up he took it back :lol:
To be changed soon - rko281, where are you??? LOL

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Re: Off-topic thread for rally fans

Post by Maria d » 05 Jul 2010, 12:28

Valuk,
give us time and we catch up to men, so many of my friends are having heart attacks now . its strange.
when i know it...........K.Raikkonen

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Re: Off-topic thread for rally fans

Post by valuk » 05 Jul 2010, 12:44

Wolfie wrote:
Boohoo back to you :lol:

Who says women work less? At some point men want to have children and the woman has to give up her career, stay off work and possibly never getting back to work, depending on what the husband wants also.


Again I was talking about statutory retirement age (in most countrys) for women who DON´T have children. Your statutory retirement age lowers if you have children (in most countrys in EU)

Wolfie wrote:But you are right, the real problem is respect. It's alarming how things have taken a turn in Finland for example. Even young girls have become very demanding and the respect for men is fading. Women can have one-night-stands and refuse to start a relationships whereas earlier it was the other way around, men were running away from commitment.

Like I said, I wait for a balance, now it has gone to the other extreme here and men are more like toy-boys to some :n


It is like you girls want to be like us in every aspect. If we behave like jerks you want to behave like jerks. But you forget that real men respect you because you are not like us.

Wolfie wrote:
Never fall in love with a Finnish girl, never :n


Too late. :n :hug: :O

Wolfie wrote:
Their reactions weren't nice to watch in the end so I took it down. But I also understood much better how women are exposed to objectification from day to day - in the western world - so no wonder so many women put so much money on their hair and clothes plus are always on a diet.


Oh right, so now we are also responsible for the hundreds of shoes you just HAVE to have. :roll:: You do this to yourself.

Wolfie wrote:Things have changed a bit, you see more and more men as models and belive me, it will have an affect on you sooner or later. Once the comparison-game starts, please do your everything to get out of it before you are in for something you are bound to lose at some point since it's based upon an illusion and no matter how goodlooking or fit you are, be sure that there will always be more fitter and more goodlooking men as time goes by. You can't win and for women it's everyday life.


Want to be like a male model? No way. Woman who wants that kind of a sissy man should just start "playing for the other team".
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them."

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Re: Off-topic thread for rally fans

Post by Linda-Anne » 05 Jul 2010, 12:51

Wolfie wrote:Linda, I feel for you and your vacuum cleaner :hug:

Trust me, you are not alone. Once christmas-present from a bf was kitchen-scissors, kitchen-knife and some other vital things one needs in the kitchen.

And one christmas I got a scanned picture of his old vacuum cleaner my bf wanted to give me - he gave it to me allright but when breaking up he took it back :lol:


Its ok Wolfie I turned the tables on him, bought him a hedge trimmer for his birthday :n Needles to say it never happened again.

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