It is currently 22 Aug 2017, 01:35

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5765 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330 ... 385  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2010, 17:47  
F1 Routinier
User avatar

Joined: 11 Apr 2010, 18:01
Posts: 5553
Kriss wrote:
Quote:
finalise sponsors
we"ve been waiting for this for weeks :zz:
where did he hear that ? maybe we should tweet him :confused:

You should tweet him back Kriss :n
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2010, 17:49  
F1 Routinier
User avatar

Joined: 11 Apr 2010, 18:01
Posts: 5553
brendakarli wrote:
I know it is not fair to compare him to those other experienced drivers...I was just pointing out the huge gap between them and that the stats do not offer a realistic view of kimi's performance in his rookie year. If I come across as negative, I apologize, but it is as if his result this year is like that of HRT drivers. For HRT drivers, it is acceptable that they are last on the standings only because they do not have the car beneath them, just like lotus, virgin etc.

It should in fact be that we should judge kimi like hamilton in his rookie year, where hamilton jumped into a winning car as a rookie, because citroen is the best car in rally. Is my logic flawed? Perhaps it can be argued that the lower classes (i.e. karting, GP2, etc) are all essentially similar to the way F1 cars work. In this case, I feel Kimi should go through the lower runks to gain that experience too. This immediate jump to the elite class that is WRC is very ambitous and if not for his WDC in F1, he would not even be given the time nor day to impress upon team bosses. however it is viewed, the fact is rallying and F1 are totally different animals. We cannot transfer talent like that since the skills set are completely different even though he is essentially doing something that is called driving.

I just feel he will languish at the bottom for the next years to come (and we do not even know what his real potential will be) so it is just depressing to have to deal with that. And when you consider he would definitely not be languishing in mid or low-field if he was in F1, it just makes me feel far worse that he prefers to throw all his refined talent to the wayside for something he can actually pick up as a hobby (like Kubica). What I also mean is that to get from good/decent to elite takes much more than just passion.

sorry for the rant, I'm really depressed that 's all

Image

I think it all depends on what your expections are from him. If you are only used to seeing him win all the time, then yes obviously seeing him crash in WRC is a disappointment. I have never taken Kimi winning for granted, it is not the most important thing to me when I am supporting him and I started supporting him long before he even won anything.
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2010, 17:57  
F1 Routinier
User avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 2010, 09:47
Posts: 4316
sleenster wrote:
Kriss wrote:
Quote:
finalise sponsors
we"ve been waiting for this for weeks :zz:
where did he hear that ? maybe we should tweet him :confused:

You should tweet him back Kriss :n


I did :cool:
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2010, 17:59  
F1 Routinier
User avatar

Joined: 11 Apr 2010, 18:01
Posts: 5553
Kriss wrote:
sleenster wrote:
Kriss wrote:
Quote:
finalise sponsors
we"ve been waiting for this for weeks :zz:
where did he hear that ? maybe we should tweet him :confused:

You should tweet him back Kriss :n


I did :cool:

Thanks :hug:
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2010, 18:03  
F1 Driver
User avatar

Joined: 11 Apr 2010, 00:22
Posts: 1074
sleenster wrote:
brendakarli wrote:
I know it is not fair to compare him to those other experienced drivers...I was just pointing out the huge gap between them and that the stats do not offer a realistic view of kimi's performance in his rookie year. If I come across as negative, I apologize, but it is as if his result this year is like that of HRT drivers. For HRT drivers, it is acceptable that they are last on the standings only because they do not have the car beneath them, just like lotus, virgin etc.

It should in fact be that we should judge kimi like hamilton in his rookie year, where hamilton jumped into a winning car as a rookie, because citroen is the best car in rally. Is my logic flawed? Perhaps it can be argued that the lower classes (i.e. karting, GP2, etc) are all essentially similar to the way F1 cars work. In this case, I feel Kimi should go through the lower runks to gain that experience too. This immediate jump to the elite class that is WRC is very ambitous and if not for his WDC in F1, he would not even be given the time nor day to impress upon team bosses. however it is viewed, the fact is rallying and F1 are totally different animals. We cannot transfer talent like that since the skills set are completely different even though he is essentially doing something that is called driving.

I just feel he will languish at the bottom for the next years to come (and we do not even know what his real potential will be) so it is just depressing to have to deal with that. And when you consider he would definitely not be languishing in mid or low-field if he was in F1, it just makes me feel far worse that he prefers to throw all his refined talent to the wayside for something he can actually pick up as a hobby (like Kubica). What I also mean is that to get from good/decent to elite takes much more than just passion.

sorry for the rant, I'm really depressed that 's all

Image

I think it all depends on what your expections are from him. If you are only used to seeing him win all the time, then yes obviously seeing him crash in WRC is a disappointment. I have never taken Kimi winning for granted, it is not the most important thing to me when I am supporting him and I started supporting him long before he even won anything.


Indeed, even in F1 Kimi wasn't winning all of the time. It will take him some time and experience to challenge the top drivers, but it is a very interesting journey. In any race or rally it often takes a lot of things to work out perfectly.

I hope Kimi stays with the Citroen jnr. team, I think he really fits in there and they have been very supportive this year.

_________________
Image
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2010, 18:11  
GP2 Driver

Joined: 09 Apr 2010, 16:45
Posts: 491
sleenster,

I also started supporting him when his car always had issues etc...it was during those times that I was on the edge of my seat etc. It is not that I have high expectations of him, but for someone who doesn't like to lose, he sure is telling me (at least) that he doesn't seem to mind now. I guess if he was in the mid-level, like 5th overall, then it would seem to me that he has the potential, not while languishing at the bottom of the pool where it is hard to discern becos last is last and I feel no one really takes him seriously other than the fact that he is a WDC. They are only interested in the buzz that he creates for WRC so he gets a drive becos he has a pedigree from somewhere else, u know what I mean? It is also very telling that citroen would not give him a drive if he did not have sponsorship.

Today, I can't even see him do a stage drive, can't see him do any overtaking, and wait here patiently for people in the loop to report what is going on with him. Just not my cup of tea I suppose.

_________________
The JINX
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2010, 18:28  
F1 Routinier
User avatar

Joined: 11 Apr 2010, 18:01
Posts: 5553
brendakarli wrote:
sleenster,

I also started supporting him when his car always had issues etc...it was during those times that I was on the edge of my seat etc. It is not that I have high expectations of him, but for someone who doesn't like to lose, he sure is telling me (at least) that he doesn't seem to mind now. I guess if he was in the mid-level, like 5th overall, then it would seem to me that he has the potential, not while languishing at the bottom of the pool where it is hard to discern becos last is last and I feel no one really takes him seriously other than the fact that he is a WDC. They are only interested in the buzz that he creates for WRC so he gets a drive becos he has a pedigree from somewhere else, u know what I mean? It is also very telling that citroen would not give him a drive if he did not have sponsorship.

Today, I can't even see him do a stage drive, can't see him do any overtaking, and wait here patiently for people in the loop to report what is going on with him. Just not my cup of tea I suppose.

I'm not sure I know what to tell you to make you feel better or if there really is anything I can even tell you to feel better. :confused:

But well, we can look objectively at who Kimi is competing with in Rally GB. Kimi finished 8th in the rally, behind Henning Solberg and Matt Wilson. But this is Henning Solberg's 10th time competing in this rally and this is Wilson's 7th time competing in the rally. Like I said before, I really don't think it's fair to be comparing him to drivers who have such a massive advantage in terms of experience at this rally.
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2010, 18:39  
F1 Rookie
User avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 2010, 09:14
Posts: 651
Location: finland
sleenster wrote:
brendakarli wrote:
sleenster,

I also started supporting him when his car always had issues etc...it was during those times that I was on the edge of my seat etc. It is not that I have high expectations of him, but for someone who doesn't like to lose, he sure is telling me (at least) that he doesn't seem to mind now. I guess if he was in the mid-level, like 5th overall, then it would seem to me that he has the potential, not while languishing at the bottom of the pool where it is hard to discern becos last is last and I feel no one really takes him seriously other than the fact that he is a WDC. They are only interested in the buzz that he creates for WRC so he gets a drive becos he has a pedigree from somewhere else, u know what I mean? It is also very telling that citroen would not give him a drive if he did not have sponsorship.

Today, I can't even see him do a stage drive, can't see him do any overtaking, and wait here patiently for people in the loop to report what is going on with him. Just not my cup of tea I suppose.

I'm not sure I know what to tell you to make you feel better or if there really is anything I can even tell you to feel better. :confused:

But well, we can look objectively at who Kimi is competing with in Rally GB. Kimi finished 8th in the rally, behind Henning Solberg and Matt Wilson. But this is Henning Solberg's 10th time competing in this rally and this is Wilson's 7th time competing in the rally. Like I said before, I really don't think it's fair to be comparing him to drivers who have such a massive advantage in terms of experience at this rally.

Yep, and Kaj said something that descripes Wilson perfectly. He said he is happy Kimi didnt drive "nicely" to the end in every rally, because like that the driver doesnt really develop himself. You have to try your limits to see where is room to improve. If you dont , you just drive with the same speed, with the same places and never get faster. There is our five year plan.
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2010, 18:53  
GP2 Driver

Joined: 09 Apr 2010, 16:45
Posts: 491
apple,

u r too cute with the 5-year plan...I suppose he can jump an overall position for each year and since seb is retiring next year, there will be one less competitor to contend with.

anyhow, it is 3 am here, I better get some sleep as my tummy is growling with hunger! Nighty night folks

_________________
The JINX
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2010, 19:01  
F1 Rookie

Joined: 12 Apr 2010, 18:45
Posts: 665
brendakarli wrote:
sleenster,

I also started supporting him when his car always had issues etc...it was during those times that I was on the edge of my seat etc. It is not that I have high expectations of him, but for someone who doesn't like to lose, he sure is telling me (at least) that he doesn't seem to mind now. I guess if he was in the mid-level, like 5th overall, then it would seem to me that he has the potential, not while languishing at the bottom of the pool where it is hard to discern becos last is last and I feel no one really takes him seriously other than the fact that he is a WDC. They are only interested in the buzz that he creates for WRC so he gets a drive becos he has a pedigree from somewhere else, u know what I mean? It is also very telling that citroen would not give him a drive if he did not have sponsorship.

Today, I can't even see him do a stage drive, can't see him do any overtaking, and wait here patiently for people in the loop to report what is going on with him. Just not my cup of tea I suppose.


Well, I see why you feel like that, but you're wrong about a few things concerned WRC.
Petter Solberg is a WDC, and a top driver, and he also can't get a car without sponsorship. Actually he has problems with finding sponsorship too. So does Dani Sordo and a number of proved top drivers.
Performance wise I don't think it's fair to judge Kimi by F1 standards. I looked up other people's first WRC races in recent years. Block, Rossi, Ogier, Latvala, all of them in top cars. Ogier is the only one of them, who was faster than Kimi compared to the top drivers, and they had significantly more experience in a rally car beforehand. It's easy to leave out of the equation that Kimi started from scratch. He has to learn a lot of things properly before he can focus on his driving. It's not a coincidence, that in Turkey or Bulgaria he was suddenly pretty close to the top guys.
Yeah, it's hard to watch him struggle, but it's definitely not like he's given up, and accepted just cruising around at the back of the field. He wouldn't even think about a second year in WRC if he doesn't believe he's capable of significant improvement.

_________________
"Disappointments are part of the game. It’s how you deal with them that matters"
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2010, 19:02  
Kart Champion
User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2010, 17:26
Posts: 106
Location: Netherlands
Off-Topic: show
good night brendakarli :hug:

_________________
''If i'm not good enough as I am then I don't have to be good enough at all'' - Matti Raikkonen
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2010, 19:10  
F1 Routinier
User avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 2010, 09:47
Posts: 4316
beefree88 wrote:
brendakarli wrote:
sleenster,

I also started supporting him when his car always had issues etc...it was during those times that I was on the edge of my seat etc. It is not that I have high expectations of him, but for someone who doesn't like to lose, he sure is telling me (at least) that he doesn't seem to mind now. I guess if he was in the mid-level, like 5th overall, then it would seem to me that he has the potential, not while languishing at the bottom of the pool where it is hard to discern becos last is last and I feel no one really takes him seriously other than the fact that he is a WDC. They are only interested in the buzz that he creates for WRC so he gets a drive becos he has a pedigree from somewhere else, u know what I mean? It is also very telling that citroen would not give him a drive if he did not have sponsorship.

Today, I can't even see him do a stage drive, can't see him do any overtaking, and wait here patiently for people in the loop to report what is going on with him. Just not my cup of tea I suppose.


Well, I see why you feel like that, but you're wrong about a few things concerned WRC.
Petter Solberg is a WDC, and a top driver, and he also can't get a car without sponsorship. Actually he has problems with finding sponsorship too. So does Dani Sordo and a number of proved top drivers.
Performance wise I don't think it's fair to judge Kimi by F1 standards. I looked up other people's first WRC races in recent years. Block, Rossi, Ogier, Latvala, all of them in top cars. Ogier is the only one of them, who was faster than Kimi compared to the top drivers, and they had significantly more experience in a rally car beforehand. It's easy to leave out of the equation that Kimi started from scratch. He has to learn a lot of things properly before he can focus on his driving. It's not a coincidence, that in Turkey or Bulgaria he was suddenly pretty close to the top guys.
Yeah, it's hard to watch him struggle, but it's definitely not like he's given up, and accepted just cruising around at the back of the field. He wouldn't even think about a second year in WRC if he doesn't believe he's capable of significant improvement.



good post :thumbsup:
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2010, 19:15  
F1 Rookie

Joined: 12 Apr 2010, 18:45
Posts: 665
brendakarli wrote:
when I told hubby that Kimi wants to remain in WRC, he went to analyze kimi's overall standings etc and commented that of all the regular competitors, kimi is dead last. What this means is that kimi is last in the standings for competitors that participated in all or almost all of the races. I think kimi only did not do the rally in NZ (is this correct?). And all competitors ranked after kimi did not compete in (as) many events...when I heard it, I became rather depressed...hubby said kimi should not throw away his god given talent in F1. oh well, we know how stubborn that boy is! So, we can only sit by and let him do his thing.

Well, I don't know how and what he analized, but it's definitely misleading to judge a rally driver's performance based on how much points he got.
Most of the current top drivers should have ended their carreer after their first year based on that.

_________________
"Disappointments are part of the game. It’s how you deal with them that matters"
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2010, 19:44  
F1 Rookie

Joined: 12 Apr 2010, 18:45
Posts: 665
sleenster wrote:
brendakarli wrote:
when I told hubby that Kimi wants to remain in WRC, he went to analyze kimi's overall standings etc and commented that of all the regular competitors, kimi is dead last. What this means is that kimi is last in the standings for competitors that participated in all or almost all of the races. I think kimi only did not do the rally in NZ (is this correct?). And all competitors ranked after kimi did not compete in (as) many events...when I heard it, I became rather depressed...hubby said kimi should not throw away his god given talent in F1. oh well, we know how stubborn that boy is! So, we can only sit by and let him do his thing.

I don't think it's fair to compare him to drivers who have been rallying for many more years and have much more experience compared to Kimi. Whether Kimi should have started rallying at this level with all the big boys, that's a different argument altogether. If he had started in the IRC or with an S2000 car for example there would probably be a lot less scrutiny of his results. And for some of the rallies, up to the point where he went off his pace wasn't actually too bad for someone who is a rookie and has never driven to pacenotes before. Like Kimi says in the interview I posted in the Rally GB thread, there's a lot less room for error in rallying compared to F1. If you go off in F1, there's an entire supermarket parking lot for you to recover but the smallest mistake in rallying, it's game over and that's why he has lost a lot points for that. Kaj has also said that if Kimi wants to achieve anything in rallying, it has to be part of a 2-3 year long term plan to gain experience. So we cannot expect too much for someone not only in their first year in the WRC, but in their first year of driving a rally car on stages and conditions that he has never encountered before.

Kimi said himself that the WRC cars are a lot faster and harder to drive than the smaller ones. He wanted to grab the last chance to try them. It would have been definitely easier and more flattering in comparison if he goes on like he started last year. Which would have happen if SA doesn't get him kicked out.

_________________
"Disappointments are part of the game. It’s how you deal with them that matters"
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2010, 19:53  
F1 Routinier
User avatar

Joined: 11 Apr 2010, 18:01
Posts: 5553
beefree88 wrote:
Kimi said himself that the WRC cars are a lot faster and harder to drive than the smaller ones. He wanted to grab the last chance to try them. It would have been definitely easier and more flattering in comparison if he goes on like he started last year.
I don't disagree with you at all there.


beefree88 wrote:
Which would have happen if SA doesn't get him kicked out.
Who, or what are you referring to when you say SA? I didn't get the reference. :huh:
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5765 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330 ... 385  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
Jump to:  
cron

F1Zone.net is proudly powered by phpBB