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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010, 15:41  
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spinster wrote:
sleenster wrote:
spinster wrote:
Did you ever heard him rejecting those seats last year??? Nope...

For me Kimi had enough of F1 because of 2008 and 2009... And he wanted to clear his mind and do something else...and that's why he never ruled out F1.

Uh.... there was that interview with Helmut Marko just a few weeks back where he said Kimi rejected the RBR seat and said he wanted to go rallying instead. Did you see it?


Yes I saw that...but I mean did you heared in 2009 Kimi saying that he rejected the drive?? that's what I mean...

Or how about Kimi saying that there was no point making a stupid contract with McLaren last year?
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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010, 15:47  
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spinster wrote:
Wolfie wrote:
spinster wrote:
sleenster wrote:
Good point, spinster.
Kimi was intelligent enough to know that Mercedes was going to be a crappy car this year, even Schumacher didn't see that coming :lol:


I remember a chat that I had last year in Spa with Kimi first engineer Jacky Eeckelaert. He said that Brawn was just very lucky of having the resources of Honda (He was also engineer at Honda in 2008) and the double diffusor in the first 6-7 races. After that you could already see that Brawn couldn't follow the speed of upgrading like Mclaren, Red Bull,... and he said it was because all good engineers, workers were already gone from the team because Brawn didn't have the budget to deploy 900 persons like Honda did. Mercedes this year have that problem and you can notice that too again... Look to Renault, Williams who even develops faster.

A week ago i saw an interview where someone of mercedes said that they need new and good personel to work...

And Jacky said that Kimi is very well informed about such situations...

And he said Kimi call him sometimes at night when he's completely TUUUTTTT :lol: I thought i was going to die i laughed so hard


Wow, thank you Spinster for sharing this with us :hug:

It's reassuring to know that he knows what is going on and is intelligent enough to see what kind of cars the teams develop.

As for Redbull, since it's been discussed here, one mustn't forget that Mark said some quite strong words in public about his employer and we don't know what the plan in the team is for next year. If his employer can take it then good, no complaints. But I highly suspect that it caused some rift between Mark and the team. There are things you just don't go and say out in public.

Funny how on other forums people hailed Mark for his outspokenness but at the same time they call Kimi a whiner for opening his mouth about Renault's actions.

I don't know what they are thinking in Red Bull but it wouldn't surprise me if they would choose to end Mark's contract based upon him bashing the team in public. A team has a brand to protect afterall and Red Bull's negative PR-image must have been something they think about in higher positions.

What do you think?


At the same time i had a talk with Martin Brundle (i have my pics on facebook if you wanna see them... my name there is Wim Spinne Spinoy) and he told my how much Mclaren wanted kimi back and how many teams would want Kimi as a driver.

What we see and hear in public is so different from when you're in the paddock and talks to some people from other teams...

I remember talking to Webber and Vettel there when we had a meet and great and dinner with them and I also talked about kimi...and be sure every one of the drivers knows how fast Kimi is and what was his problem in Ferrari...and for sure it wasn't his motivation!


Wow Spinster :blink:

Thanks, I will immediately go to Facebook and bless you for telling about how all the drivers also knew what Kimi's problem in Ferrari was - not his motivation :<>:

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010, 15:50  
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luieluv wrote:
All these desperate talks of kimi back to F1 disappoints me a bit. I have always said that patience would be the real key to success for kimi in WRC. We will have to see these rough phase if WRC becomes a career choice of kimi for next few years.

I can see lots of impatient kimi fans. Nothing against those who want him back in F1 but it will be totally unfair even if kimi does not give himself some more time to Rallying. Already investing 1 year and one CANNOT conclude anything in such a short span.


Thank you luie for saying this. :thumbsup:

I know some people are only used to seeing him win but for me personally, it's equally fulfilling to follow the progression of a driver and see how he develops. When I started supporting Kimi in 2001, I didn't know if or when he was ever going to start winning races or championships. I just had this feeling that he was talented and that he had some kind of potential to develop. It's been really nice to see a driver you believed in from the beginning finally go on to do great things.
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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010, 15:52  
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sleenster wrote:
McLaren definitely wanted Kimi badly. The only problem is that last year, he already rejected the McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes seats. I haven't heard him say anything to show that he has changed his mind. All we have heard from him is "I WANT to stay in rally" and "I probably will not go back to F1".


Come on, Sleenster.... Did we hear Kimi say he wants to go to rally in 2009?

And I haven't heard yet Kimi say that he wants to stay in rally. That's something other people have said about how they think Kimi thinks.

WRC or F1 - he is keeping his mouth shut about all negotiations and will for sure not drop any revealing truths about his future. This is 2009 all over. All we can do is wait.

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010, 15:55  
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Wolfie wrote:
sleenster wrote:
McLaren definitely wanted Kimi badly. The only problem is that last year, he already rejected the McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes seats. I haven't heard him say anything to show that he has changed his mind. All we have heard from him is "I WANT to stay in rally" and "I probably will not go back to F1".


Come on, Sleenster.... Did we hear Kimi say he wants to go to rally in 2009?

And I haven't heard yet Kimi say that he wants to stay in rally. That's something other people have said about how they think Kimi thinks.

WRC or F1 - he is keeping his mouth shut about all negotiations and will for sure not drop any revealing truths about his future. This is 2009 all over. All we can do is wait.

I'm sorry, but am I hallucinating or what? :huh: Did Kimi not say directly to Neil Cole during france that he wants to stay in rally? Did anyone not see that? Or was it just a figment of my imagination?
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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010, 15:59  
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Wolfie wrote:
spinster wrote:
Wolfie wrote:
sleenster wrote:

I think one thing people forget is that even though Kimi came into F1 very quickly, he was not consistently beating his teammates (Heidfeld and Coulthard) in his first two years. Only in his third year in F1, he became much much better than both of them. This indicates to me that even though he is a great driver, he does need some time to reach his full potential, because he did not reach his full potential in F1 until his third year.


Sleenster, you also have to remember that Kimi wasn't allowed to make his own setups in Sauber until the 4th GP and he started beating Heidfeld after that and Heidfeld stopped talking to Kimi after that. In the endseason he wasn't given the best possibilities because Sauber was quite pissed with Kimi leaving to McLaren.

In McLaren again DC started complaining when Kimi started beating him and Dennis ordered Adrian Newey to help DC together with his race engineer.

I'm not saying Kimi is flawless, I'm saying that endseason 2009 showed exactly what happens when he gets the support he needs.

They talked ages ago on the Finnish forum about what it means when Kimi's front suspension was changed and the car became understeering (which Massa admitted) and someone said that it means extra work for Kimi and his race engineer to try and make the car as oversteering as possible with setups.

And at the same time people were gloating at how rubbish Kimi was with setup and how Massa managed to do his setups better than Kimi - now when people are bashing Massa they make the same mistake again; judge him without knowing the details.


You're so right wolfie... and Kimi was indead from the very beginning very fast in F1 because race circuits are his natural habitat. And in rally you can see that he has it damn difficult with gravel and mud stages, he always make mistakes on them... i never saw kimi make those many mistakes in the beginning of his f1 career...

I just can't believe that Kimi will invest in something where he isn't sure to reach the top. And I know that he still has to learn a lot and that you can't be a top driver within a year but even on rallies who're new to everyone you can see the difference is the same as in other rallies...

The top drivers don't know the roads on their mind too...they just listen to their co-driver and drive. Look at Ogier who won Japan where he drove for the first time...

Give kimi a car in f1 within the 5 best cars and he'll for sure reach the podium... whatever may happen and it won't take long to have it. I wanna chear for Kimi on f1 podiums very soon again. If, for example, Kubica would be kimi and drove in rally with this results what would you say? He was damn good? Driving around in the best car... he's fighting with drivers who'll never win a championship or even a rally...


Hi Spinster :wave:

Kimi was a sensation in F1 when he came there in 2001. Even FIA adviced other drivers to learn from Räikkönen's driving.

Peter Sauber said that normally it would require 10-20 million dollars to develop the car half a second faster - or hiring Schumacher. Sauber said that his team got this advantage for free due to Räikkönen and Heidfeld.

Spinster, you are so right about how things are seen differently by putting someone else in Kimi's position. It's sad to see :(

There might be an interesting combo going on since Citroen would want Kimi because of the free PR they get, then again Red Bull seem to bee very closely connected to Kimi. It could well be that they both have been waiting for Kimi's decision (which I think has been made ages ago) and what is also worth mentioning is that Matezitch has said he has a close relationship with Kimi.

Matezitch is a man who probably has his share of groupies and I'm sure he appreciates Kimi's honest and equal attitude towards him much more than someone who is bending over to please him :p


i'm know Mateschitz really loved kimi.. He was sponsoring him even in his Ferrari time... do you think that he sogned kimi just for WRC and PR...?? No he want him sooner or later in his car whatever Helmut or Christian may say... HE IS THE BOSS!!! and HE IS KIMI'S supporter too

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010, 16:00  
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sleenster wrote:
I'm sorry, but am I hallucinating or what? :huh: Did Kimi not say directly to Neil Cole during france that he wants to stay in rally? Did anyone not see that? Or was it just a figment of my imagination?


you are right, he said that to Neil :O
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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010, 16:00  
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spinster wrote:
luieluv wrote:
All these desperate talks of kimi back to F1 disappoints me a bit. I have always said that patience would be the real key to success for kimi in WRC. We will have to see these rough phase if WRC becomes a career choice of kimi for next few years.

I can see lots of impatient kimi fans. Nothing against those who want him back in F1 but it will be totally unfair even if kimi does not give himself some more time to Rallying. Already investing 1 year and one CANNOT conclude anything in such a short span.


It's not of giving him not the time.. I'm absolutely sure he can reach some podiums on tarmac within a few years...but is that the reason why we supported kimi? I support and supported him because he's a winner and not a mediocre driver...that's my point.

I just want him to drive in my homecountry (Belgium) as the Master of Spa because he really is there THE MASTER. Kimi is a pure racer and that's something you can see on real racing circuits (Spa, Suzuka, Monaco...)


@Luie, there is something in the air and it makes us restless and thinking of all options. Main point here is that some Kimi-fans aren't sure IF he wants to stay in rally or not and all that matters is Kimi's own decision, not what we want. I mean, we went with him to WRC so it's sure that we will stay with him in WRC too if he continues there. One year is nothing but Kimi and Kaitsu can tell from this year what his future in rally will look like and that's what matters.

@Spinster, oi you are from Belgium :shhh:

Spa this year was the hardest F1-race for me to watch. I have not missed Kimi in any other GP but Spa... The University of Harvard according to Turrini :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010, 16:00  
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sleenster wrote:
luieluv wrote:
All these desperate talks of kimi back to F1 disappoints me a bit. I have always said that patience would be the real key to success for kimi in WRC. We will have to see these rough phase if WRC becomes a career choice of kimi for next few years.

I can see lots of impatient kimi fans. Nothing against those who want him back in F1 but it will be totally unfair even if kimi does not give himself some more time to Rallying. Already investing 1 year and one CANNOT conclude anything in such a short span.


Thank you luie for saying this. :thumbsup:

I know some people are only used to seeing him win but for me personally, it's equally fulfilling to follow the progression of a driver and see how he develops. When I started supporting Kimi in 2001, I didn't know if or when he was ever going to start winning races or championships. I just had this feeling that he was talented and that he had some kind of potential to develop. It's been really nice to see a driver you believed in from the beginning finally go on to do great things.

Yes i completely agree with you. Actually for me the days in sauber were the best days as a kimi fan. I have experienced a deja vu of the similar feelings of sauber days in this first year of rally. Winning was and will never be the criteria for me to support kimi raikkonen. Kimi's driving in sauber days gave me much much much more satisfaction then what he did in Ferrari. Though Mclaren days would always be special too but if i was to just opt one then it would be kimi in sauber. Whenever i close my eyes and think of the racing dare devil, The kid in sauber attire comes in front of my eyes. The vision gradually takes me to Mclaren days coz we all know how special that stint was. But that said we have a chance here to re live the similar feeling of what we all experienced in Mclaren days if kimi fans can give him couple of years in WRC.

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010, 16:01  
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spinster wrote:
It's not of giving him not the time.. I'm absolutely sure he can reach some podiums on tarmac within a few years...but is that the reason why we supported kimi? I support and supported him because he's a winner and not a mediocre driver...that's my point.

I just want him to drive in my homecountry (Belgium) as the Master of Spa because he really is there THE MASTER. Kimi is a pure racer and that's something you can see on real racing circuits (Spa, Suzuka, Monaco...)

Hm, I don't support him just because he is a winner, I support him because he is special and his whole package is special... Of course he's not mediocre, but imho winning isn't everything... Yes I know he's ambitious to win, but trying a year in WRC shows 1. he has cojones and 2. he is open for new challanges, which also makes him special and distinguishes him from other drivers...
I just want him to continue doing what he feels like is right for him, may it be F1 or WRC, may he be winning or not.

And why do you think you can recognize a pure racer on racing circuits only? For me, a pure racer is someone who is ambitious to get at least 150% out of his car/bike/whatever and is pushing hard to get the best result that's possible (may it be a win or a 10th place) and who doesn't give up no matter how tricky the situation is... And that (imho) doesn't only count for drivers racing on circuits...
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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010, 16:01  
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sleenster wrote:
spinster wrote:
sleenster wrote:
spinster wrote:
Did you ever heard him rejecting those seats last year??? Nope...

For me Kimi had enough of F1 because of 2008 and 2009... And he wanted to clear his mind and do something else...and that's why he never ruled out F1.

Uh.... there was that interview with Helmut Marko just a few weeks back where he said Kimi rejected the RBR seat and said he wanted to go rallying instead. Did you see it?


Yes I saw that...but I mean did you heared in 2009 Kimi saying that he rejected the drive?? that's what I mean...

Or how about Kimi saying that there was no point making a stupid contract with McLaren last year?


A contract where he wanted to do f1/rally in combo wouldn't be a stupid contract...

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010, 16:02  
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I slept during Rally France so I didn't hear Kimi say he wants to stay in rally but I believe you - it's the first time he says that then.

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010, 16:03  
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Wolfie wrote:
spinster wrote:
Wolfie wrote:
spinster wrote:
sleenster wrote:
Good point, spinster.
Kimi was intelligent enough to know that Mercedes was going to be a crappy car this year, even Schumacher didn't see that coming :lol:


I remember a chat that I had last year in Spa with Kimi first engineer Jacky Eeckelaert. He said that Brawn was just very lucky of having the resources of Honda (He was also engineer at Honda in 2008) and the double diffusor in the first 6-7 races. After that you could already see that Brawn couldn't follow the speed of upgrading like Mclaren, Red Bull,... and he said it was because all good engineers, workers were already gone from the team because Brawn didn't have the budget to deploy 900 persons like Honda did. Mercedes this year have that problem and you can notice that too again... Look to Renault, Williams who even develops faster.

A week ago i saw an interview where someone of mercedes said that they need new and good personel to work...

And Jacky said that Kimi is very well informed about such situations...

And he said Kimi call him sometimes at night when he's completely TUUUTTTT :lol: I thought i was going to die i laughed so hard


Wow, thank you Spinster for sharing this with us :hug:

It's reassuring to know that he knows what is going on and is intelligent enough to see what kind of cars the teams develop.

As for Redbull, since it's been discussed here, one mustn't forget that Mark said some quite strong words in public about his employer and we don't know what the plan in the team is for next year. If his employer can take it then good, no complaints. But I highly suspect that it caused some rift between Mark and the team. There are things you just don't go and say out in public.

Funny how on other forums people hailed Mark for his outspokenness but at the same time they call Kimi a whiner for opening his mouth about Renault's actions.

I don't know what they are thinking in Red Bull but it wouldn't surprise me if they would choose to end Mark's contract based upon him bashing the team in public. A team has a brand to protect afterall and Red Bull's negative PR-image must have been something they think about in higher positions.

What do you think?


At the same time i had a talk with Martin Brundle (i have my pics on facebook if you wanna see them... my name there is Wim Spinne Spinoy) and he told my how much Mclaren wanted kimi back and how many teams would want Kimi as a driver.

What we see and hear in public is so different from when you're in the paddock and talks to some people from other teams...

I remember talking to Webber and Vettel there when we had a meet and great and dinner with them and I also talked about kimi...and be sure every one of the drivers knows how fast Kimi is and what was his problem in Ferrari...and for sure it wasn't his motivation!


Wow Spinster :blink:

Thanks, I will immediately go to Facebook and bless you for telling about how all the drivers also knew what Kimi's problem in Ferrari was - not his motivation :<>:


no problem you can add me...I've plenty more pics here on my computer but too much to put them on FB :O

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010, 16:05  
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Wolfie wrote:
spinster wrote:
luieluv wrote:
All these desperate talks of kimi back to F1 disappoints me a bit. I have always said that patience would be the real key to success for kimi in WRC. We will have to see these rough phase if WRC becomes a career choice of kimi for next few years.

I can see lots of impatient kimi fans. Nothing against those who want him back in F1 but it will be totally unfair even if kimi does not give himself some more time to Rallying. Already investing 1 year and one CANNOT conclude anything in such a short span.


It's not of giving him not the time.. I'm absolutely sure he can reach some podiums on tarmac within a few years...but is that the reason why we supported kimi? I support and supported him because he's a winner and not a mediocre driver...that's my point.

I just want him to drive in my homecountry (Belgium) as the Master of Spa because he really is there THE MASTER. Kimi is a pure racer and that's something you can see on real racing circuits (Spa, Suzuka, Monaco...)


@Luie, there is something in the air and it makes us restless and thinking of all options. Main point here is that some Kimi-fans aren't sure IF he wants to stay in rally or not and all that matters is Kimi's own decision, not what we want. I mean, we went with him to WRC so it's sure that we will stay with him in WRC too if he continues there. One year is nothing but Kimi and Kaitsu can tell from this year what his future in rally will look like and that's what matters.

@Spinster, oi you are from Belgium :shhh:

Spa this year was the hardest F1-race for me to watch. I have not missed Kimi in any other GP but Spa... The University of Harvard according to Turrini :lol:

i do agree that kimi fans are not sure and hence are little restless and want him back in F1. But ruling out WRC on basis of being unsure is not correct. If we are not sure then we cant conclude any of the thing. The best thing in such a scenario is to give more time. I am sure if kimi wants to come back in F1 then it wont be because he thinks that he wont succeed in rally. Thats our Kimi. He will be back in F1 coz he would want to come back and perhaps would get a better deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2010, 16:06  
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Wolfie wrote:
I slept during Rally France so I didn't hear Kimi say he wants to stay in rally but I believe you - it's the first time he says that then.

he said that to neil cole.

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