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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 11:26  
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All I wanted was to point out that there is a potential market-group ready for them to use - if they figure out how to do it.

Red Bull's image has suffered a lot after Turkey. People have already started to boycott their beverage and that's where the real problem is, it has nothing to do with Kimi but everything to do with what has been going on in F1.

But I refuse to be set under the label 'Kimi-fan' meaning that since I'm a fan of Kimi it makes me see things differently.

I've read a massive amount of articles from different sources and Helmut Marko is not stating what the majority has stated. So I refuse to believe blindly in only his words and dismiss all other opinions since once again - Red Bull already has a massive group of potential customers in Kimi-fans and it's up to them to take advantage of it - or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 11:32  
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Bernie is tipping Webber to win the title.
Maybe he hopes Webber will retire after that so Kimi will be at RBR in 2011. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 11:32  
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Wolfie wrote:
All I wanted was to point out that there is a potential market-group ready for them to use - if they figure out how to do it.

Red Bull's image has suffered a lot after Turkey. People have already started to boycott their beverage and that's where the real problem is, it has nothing to do with Kimi but everything to do with what has been going on in F1.

But I refuse to be set under the label 'Kimi-fan' meaning that since I'm a fan of Kimi it makes me see things differently.

I've read a massive amount of articles from different sources and Helmut Marko is not stating what the majority has stated. So I refuse to believe blindly in only his words and dismiss all other opinions since once again - Red Bull already has a massive group of potential customers in Kimi-fans and it's up to them to take advantage of it - or not.


I'm not sure how they can take advantage of me as a fan though. :huh: I am probably not going to buy a Red Bull hap every week and I sure as hell would not ever drink Red Bull no matter how great Kimi's results are. (OK maybe I'll bathe in Red Bull for a week if Kimi wins a rally :p )
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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 11:37  
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Claudie_Schnaudie wrote:
beefree88 wrote:
Claudie_Schnaudie wrote:
Thanks Draca :hug:

Wolfie: I think you give Kimi too much market value. If Marko says so I tend to believe him even though we don´t like to here it.


Ecclestone said it's no problem that F1 lost Kimi, there's Schumacher for them. Now he's trying to talk Kimi back.
You say you believe Marko, but you actually believe an interpretation of what he said.
I know it's hard to stay patient, and rely only news bits, but no point to worry in advance



What interpretation?

And I am not worried! Just pissed off. This whole thing is getting on my nerves!


His words are selected and presented in a context that serves to prove the point of the writer. Different context would give them a different meaning. It's how the press is working nowadys, nothing to do with the truth

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 11:41  
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Red Bull is disappointed with global "lack of exposure" of WRC, this can not be achieved without global TV coverage IMO. If they want WRC to become a attractive marketing tool for manufactures and sponsors they have to improve the global exposure... and make it more accessible to general public.

I think it's a bit unfair for Marko to blame Kimi alone for the lack of PR.

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 11:52  
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I agree with that, and this is their problem. I can understand completely Marko's concern with their sponsorship in WRC. Remember at the begining of the season how excited everyone was about the changes in WRC that North One will do about TV, the fact that Kimi is there, Todt's own words. Well, as you can see for yourselves, nothing big happened. I mean there was no major improvement.
So, from a business point of view, I'm sure RedBull might focus on F1 (the big fat pay-checks are there) and have some minor sponsorship in rally, but paying a seat for a star like Kimi, might not be very possible as long as the WRC coverage stays like this.

P.S. If they decide to keep Kimi they should do something like Block/Monster/Gymkhana or what they did in Austria with bike versus WRC car. More events like this, the daredevil ones that bring crowds and publicity. From WRC they won't receive that.
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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 12:37  
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Claudie_Schnaudie wrote:
sleenster wrote:
Wolfie wrote:
Claudie_Schnaudie wrote:
Thanks Draca :hug:

Wolfie: I think you give Kimi too much market value. If Marko says so I tend to believe him even though we don´t like to here it.


I'm talking about F1 where the stands were filled with Kimi-fans in Asia and there was a significant lack of them this year - even Bernie acknowledged that but didn't say a word about Kimi.

Either he is not very professional when it comes to market-studies or then he just wants to avoid talking about Kimi.

That is my take on it and when it comes to WRC...

WRC-site had 12 million viewers in 2008.

WRC-site had 8 million viewers during Rally Sweden in 2010.


Red Bull aren't actually making any money from site views though.

Even though there may be lots of people buying Kimi shirts or merchandise, most of it is a one-off purchase only, so there's really a limit of how many Red Bull caps or shirts they can sell.


+1

Maybe RB does expect more PR from Kimi than from Ogier und Loeb because they pay Kimi way more than they pay those other two :huh:


I said before Marco doesn't have anything to do with the rally side, if Red Bull really wants to leave WRC then it has got nothing to do with Kimi. WRC have advertised a new deal with Motorstv and North One, they promised better visibility more regular tv slots and all sorts of things at the beginning of the year. It seem unfortunately that they have not delivered. The problem is North One still expect broadcasters to pay lots of money for the viewing rights of WRC. And they are once again promising lots of things with regards to viewership for next year. If they keep on not delivering on these promises it is no surprise that sponsors will lose interest.

However I find it hard to believe that Red Bull will just leave WRC altogether, Red Bull sponsors a lot motorsport, they basically have a connection to every type of motorsport. A lot of these motorsports have much less chance of advertisement then WRC, to that extended if you do comparisons there is no reason for them leave WRC. On top of that their biggest competitor, Monster, has just entered WRC. Would it make sense for them to just leave, they have already made the investment they are already established with the best team and Monster is always there to pick up the pieces if they are not interested. Heikki is certainly one of the most reliable reporters around but his field is F1 not WRC. I haven't seen any rumours on other rally forums (with insiders) about Red Bull leaving WRC. So I dont think it is going to happen, who knows Heikki might be on to a big scoop here, but I doubt it. Perhaps Red Bull isn't happy with all of North One's broken promises, but it would still be a big step from them to just leave WRC altogether.

To get back to Kimi, David Evans thinks these claims that Kimi isn't bringing in enough PR is ridiculous, he is a rally insider he goes to every rally and he knows what is going on. On top of that why would Monster be so interested in Kimi if he isn't bringing in the publicity? It would be counter productive to be interested in someone for publicity when they aren't bringing in enough publicity. It would do everyone well to remember that at this point everyone has an agenda. When all the speculation is over it wouldn't surprise me if Kimi is still in the Citroen next year. However driving alongside Ken Block would be interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 14:47  
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Boudica wrote:
However I find it hard to believe that Red Bull will just leave WRC altogether, Red Bull sponsors a lot motorsport, they basically have a connection to every type of motorsport. A lot of these motorsports have much less chance of advertisement then WRC, to that extended if you do comparisons there is no reason for them leave WRC. On top of that their biggest competitor, Monster, has just entered WRC. Would it make sense for them to just leave, they have already made the investment they are already established with the best team and Monster is always there to pick up the pieces if they are not interested. Heikki is certainly one of the most reliable reporters around but his field is F1 not WRC. I haven't seen any rumours on other rally forums (with insiders) about Red Bull leaving WRC. So I dont think it is going to happen, who knows Heikki might be on to a big scoop here, but I doubt it. Perhaps Red Bull isn't happy with all of North One's broken promises, but it would still be a big step from them to just leave WRC altogether.



Kulta said :"according to the German media". He said earlier, that RB is not happy about the visibility of WRC in general, but he said nothing more

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 15:18  
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beefree88 wrote:
Boudica wrote:
However I find it hard to believe that Red Bull will just leave WRC altogether, Red Bull sponsors a lot motorsport, they basically have a connection to every type of motorsport. A lot of these motorsports have much less chance of advertisement then WRC, to that extended if you do comparisons there is no reason for them leave WRC. On top of that their biggest competitor, Monster, has just entered WRC. Would it make sense for them to just leave, they have already made the investment they are already established with the best team and Monster is always there to pick up the pieces if they are not interested. Heikki is certainly one of the most reliable reporters around but his field is F1 not WRC. I haven't seen any rumours on other rally forums (with insiders) about Red Bull leaving WRC. So I dont think it is going to happen, who knows Heikki might be on to a big scoop here, but I doubt it. Perhaps Red Bull isn't happy with all of North One's broken promises, but it would still be a big step from them to just leave WRC altogether.



Kulta said :"according to the German media". He said earlier, that RB is not happy about the visibility of WRC in general, but he said nothing more


As I have said I can understand that, North One made a lot of promises at the beginning of the year, and they are once again making a lot of promises for next year. I fear only Jean Todt can save North One from themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 15:31  
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Boudica wrote:
Claudie_Schnaudie wrote:
sleenster wrote:
Wolfie wrote:
Claudie_Schnaudie wrote:
Thanks Draca :hug:

Wolfie: I think you give Kimi too much market value. If Marko says so I tend to believe him even though we don´t like to here it.


I'm talking about F1 where the stands were filled with Kimi-fans in Asia and there was a significant lack of them this year - even Bernie acknowledged that but didn't say a word about Kimi.

Either he is not very professional when it comes to market-studies or then he just wants to avoid talking about Kimi.

That is my take on it and when it comes to WRC...

WRC-site had 12 million viewers in 2008.

WRC-site had 8 million viewers during Rally Sweden in 2010.


Red Bull aren't actually making any money from site views though.

Even though there may be lots of people buying Kimi shirts or merchandise, most of it is a one-off purchase only, so there's really a limit of how many Red Bull caps or shirts they can sell.



However driving alongside Ken Block would be interesting.


I see it totally different way; hanging on in WRC is not good enough and certainly don´t want him in some kind of sircus position in Monster team with Block. Actually just having KR in some kind of motor sport is not good enough for me. I want to see him winning. In F1 it was realistic, in rally...naah.. Simple as that.. Sorry people, just had to say it..

:(
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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 15:36  
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sammyosammy wrote:

I see it totally different way; hanging on in WRC is not good enough and certainly don´t want him in some kind of sircus position in Monster team with Block. Actually just having KR in some kind of motor sport is not good enough for me. I want to see him winning. In F1 it was realistic, in rally...naah.. Simple as that.. Sorry people, just had to say it..

:(


+1....
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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 15:43  
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sammyosammy wrote:
Boudica wrote:

However driving alongside Ken Block would be interesting.


I see it totally different way; hanging on in WRC is not good enough and certainly don´t want him in some kind of sircus position in Monster team with Block. Actually just having KR in some kind of motor sport is not good enough for me. I want to see him winning. In F1 it was realistic, in rally...naah.. Simple as that.. Sorry people, just had to say it..

:(


Well, if you want to see wins, than you should stop cheering for Kimi. He's unlikely to win in the next two years in WRC or F1. In F1 there's no avaiable car, that would allow him to show his talent, and in rally he has to accumulate more experience. In WRC there's a chance of him getting better

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Last edited by beefree88 on 26 Sep 2010, 15:59, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 15:46  
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Vida wrote:
sammyosammy wrote:

I see it totally different way; hanging on in WRC is not good enough and certainly don´t want him in some kind of sircus position in Monster team with Block. Actually just having KR in some kind of motor sport is not good enough for me. I want to see him winning. In F1 it was realistic, in rally...naah.. Simple as that.. Sorry people, just had to say it..

:(


+1....

+2

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 16:15  
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It is negotiation time - lots of things are said that appear to have one meaning - but have another meaning altogether for the right set of "ears". I don't think one can place much value in anything anyone is saying. As I see it, it is as likely as not that things may not be settled until next year sometime.

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 26 Sep 2010, 16:40  
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sammyosammy wrote:
Boudica wrote:
Claudie_Schnaudie wrote:
sleenster wrote:


Red Bull aren't actually making any money from site views though.

Even though there may be lots of people buying Kimi shirts or merchandise, most of it is a one-off purchase only, so there's really a limit of how many Red Bull caps or shirts they can sell.



However driving alongside Ken Block would be interesting.


I see it totally different way; hanging on in WRC is not good enough and certainly don´t want him in some kind of sircus position in Monster team with Block. Actually just having KR in some kind of motor sport is not good enough for me. I want to see him winning. In F1 it was realistic, in rally...naah.. Simple as that.. Sorry people, just had to say it..

:(


Everyone loves to see Kimi winning, but realistically he isn't going back to F1. But we still have the chance to watch a F1 driver turn into a rally driver. That is no small feat, it has never been done before. It will be a journey, but you have to start somewhere. Driving for Monster Ford for a year or two isn't a bad choice of Kimi, it will give time to learn the trade properly, and in the meantime Monster will still market him. He fits in very well with their image, just look how well they have been marketing Ken Block.

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