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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2010, 12:57  
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Mr j this is the place to be for all things Kimi, and just about everything else

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2010, 17:14  
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Maria d wrote:
Mr j this is the place to be for all things Kimi, and just about everything else


Very well said, Maria :shhh:

And this is a family so hopefully you feel yourself included, Mr j :hug:

A lot of unique characters that amazingly get along here :cool:

Methinks it's the family-thing that keeps things alive here so that in absence of news we go crazy - in many ways :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2010, 18:13  
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Leijona wrote:
Boudica, wonderful post and I agree with you 100% :thumbsup:

the last sentence gave me goosebumps......


+1 :O

You said everything Boudica!!! Thanks!!!!! :hug:

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2010, 18:19  
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Wolfie wrote:
Maria d wrote:
Mr j this is the place to be for all things Kimi, and just about everything else


Very well said, Maria :shhh:

And this is a family so hopefully you feel yourself included, Mr j :hug:

A lot of unique characters that amazingly get along here :cool:

Methinks it's the family-thing that keeps things alive here so that in absence of news we go crazy - in many ways :lol:


Off-Topic: show
Speak for yourself...some of us are crazy all the time. :p

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2010, 18:29  
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Quote:
Kimi tight-lipped on F1 return chances
Sunday, 18 July 2010 17:02

Kimi Raikkonen says he has plenty of options for 2011 as rumours of a return to Formula 1 continue to swirl, but declined to give any hints as to whether he will continue with his rallying career.

The 2007 world champion dramatically quit F1 at the end of last season when a planned return to McLaren fell through, and switched to the World Rally Championship with Citroen's Junior team.

With his rallying programme backed by Red Bull, there was initially speculation that he was being lined up to return to F1 and take Mark Webber's seat next year - but Webber's great form this year and subsequent contract renewal swiftly quashed that story.

There has subsequently been talk of a serious approach from Renault, and gossip linking the 'Ice Man' to Mercedes.

But this week's Autosport magazine carried a report suggesting Raikkonen would spurn any F1 offers and instead commit to at least one more year in rallying, having started to get to grips with the very different sport following an inconsistent start.

However the article said that his deal would be with Red Bull's motorsport programme rather than the Citroen rally squad specifically - leaving the door open to a potential longer-term F1 return with one of Red Bull's teams, or even a move to NASCAR, where the drinks giant also has a squad.

When quizzed about his plans during last weekend's Rally Bulgaria, Raikkonen refused to give anything away, but confirmed that he was facing some tough choices for 2011.

"For sure I’ll let everybody know, when I make the decision," he said.

"There are always options to do many things.

"I have to take the right one for myself."

Raikkonen is currently 10th in the WRC standings, with a fifth place in Turkey his highest finish so far.

But he was impressing on his first asphalt WRC round in Bulgaria last week, running fourth early on and matching some of the leaders' stage times before crashing at the end of day one.


http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx ... 3&PO=48863

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2010, 18:33  
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His silence is just as bad as that dangling carrot!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2010, 20:02  
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Wolfie wrote:
Great long post again, Boudica :shhh:

Personally I don't think that Webber is mistreated in the team. If you compare him to Kovi then Kovi didn't do much of a good job for McLaren. He didn't have the race pace and like he said himself, he didn't understand why and the engineers sat down with him many times to try and figure out where the problem was because Kovi wasn't good in setting up the car.

Webber on the other hand has been given a really fair shot, he has won many races and he seems to be the one without technical failures so in my eyes it starts to look like Webber in fact demanded a #1 treatment and wasn't satisfied with the equal treatment.

If they would have wanted to sabotage Webber's chances then they wouldn't have given him a lighter car since he is heavier than Vettel and he wouldn't have been able to win since he would have been ordered to let Vettel overtake him.

This whole accusation-thing in the public has only highlighted the fact that they are treated equally and that Webber cracks under pressure when Vettel was leading in the championship-points - which was a perfectly logical justification for the other one getting the new wing - otherwise it would have been China all over when Massa was leading the championship and was getting the first pitstop but got overtaken by Alonso in a rude way and the team said nothing about it.

Vettel's fans seem to have been forced to go underground and that's why the forums are all filled with only one opinion and I am in the minority. I read Horner's interviews with Kulta ever since the beginning of the season where it was clearly pointed out - before Turkey - what the inner rules in the team were and how they were reminded of them every race in the start grid - do not take the other one out, give enough room and take the place back later but do not take your team mate out.

That tells about Red Bull looking for a WCC and they don't care which one takes the WDC as long as it's in Red Bull's name.

Hmmm...., according to LdM this was exactly the reason why they fired Kimi. According to him Kimi wasn't able to work for the team :roll::


Well I dont know, for me there is actually a lot of similarities in this whole Red Bull situation as with Kimi, Massa amd Ferrari last year. Ferrari also made a lighter chassis and give it to Kimi first. While at the German Gp they give Massa a new front wing and Kimi still had to use the old one. The only difference is Kimi didn't say anything about it. But it was obvious that Kimi wasn't Ferrari's preferred driver, and I think Webber is in the same situation. It is not so much about being openly disadvantaged, but if you are not the preferred choice it is really difficult.

That being said Webber isn't acting very maturely in this situation, he could certainly learn a thing or two from Kimi about keeping your dignity intact. And I think it is a shame that Webber fans seems to be taking this out on Vettel, when he has clearly done nothing wrong.
I think a team will always prefer one driver to another, so I dont see anything wrong with it, it is just difficult being the other driver. It will be interesting to see how this situation develops.

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2010, 04:53  
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Boudica wrote:
Well I dont know, for me there is actually a lot of similarities in this whole Red Bull situation as with Kimi, Massa amd Ferrari last year. Ferrari also made a lighter chassis and give it to Kimi first. While at the German Gp they give Massa a new front wing and Kimi still had to use the old one. The only difference is Kimi didn't say anything about it. But it was obvious that Kimi wasn't Ferrari's preferred driver, and I think Webber is in the same situation. It is not so much about being openly disadvantaged, but if you are not the preferred choice it is really difficult.

That being said Webber isn't acting very maturely in this situation, he could certainly learn a thing or two from Kimi about keeping your dignity intact. And I think it is a shame that Webber fans seems to be taking this out on Vettel, when he has clearly done nothing wrong.
I think a team will always prefer one driver to another, so I dont see anything wrong with it, it is just difficult being the other driver. It will be interesting to see how this situation develops.


I see more similarity with McLaren 2007. Webbo is clearly "the other driver", but he does have a fair chance to win. However he tries to use mind games against Vettel and the team, which might bring the same result as it did in 2007. That might leave him in a worse situation than Alo was back then, because he has no team to retreat to, and he can't afford to wait years for a chance at another shot at the title. Ferrari would give him more money and prestige, but no WDC.
On the other hand if he aleniates RB, but doesn't win, he might have to find another team, which leaves Kimi with a tough choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2010, 05:04  
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beefree88 wrote:
Boudica wrote:
Well I dont know, for me there is actually a lot of similarities in this whole Red Bull situation as with Kimi, Massa amd Ferrari last year. Ferrari also made a lighter chassis and give it to Kimi first. While at the German Gp they give Massa a new front wing and Kimi still had to use the old one. The only difference is Kimi didn't say anything about it. But it was obvious that Kimi wasn't Ferrari's preferred driver, and I think Webber is in the same situation. It is not so much about being openly disadvantaged, but if you are not the preferred choice it is really difficult.

That being said Webber isn't acting very maturely in this situation, he could certainly learn a thing or two from Kimi about keeping your dignity intact. And I think it is a shame that Webber fans seems to be taking this out on Vettel, when he has clearly done nothing wrong.
I think a team will always prefer one driver to another, so I dont see anything wrong with it, it is just difficult being the other driver. It will be interesting to see how this situation develops.


I see more similarity with McLaren 2007. Webbo is clearly "the other driver", but he does have a fair chance to win. However he tries to use mind games against Vettel and the team, which might bring the same result as it did in 2007. That might leave him in a worse situation than Alo was back then, because he has no team to retreat to, and he can't afford to wait years for a chance at another shot at the title. Ferrari would give him more money and prestige, but no WDC.
On the other hand if he aleniates RB, but doesn't win, he might have to find another team, which leaves Kimi with a tough choice.

Though i have my own take on this and i feel its not fair on Mark that the team are favouring vettel. But at the same time i can hurl choicest of abuses to mark for his on and off track actions. He is the driver who will always win when it comes to taking out cars intentionally. Poor sato did that unintentionally though. :p

And one significant point which i would like to make is that from a post race British GP interview of vettel i felt that vettel is discretely letting the people know that he and webber had shared all the info on set ups and Vettel with always an open mind did shared all the knowledge of set up he had. But for some reason i feel Mark webber is playing the dirty game of not sharing things with his team and wanting to have upper hand by not following the policy of sharing info or set ups with the team and team mate.

Something is wrong. Does anyone else has a similar take?

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2010, 06:50  
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luieluv wrote:
And one significant point which i would like to make is that from a post race British GP interview of vettel i felt that vettel is discretely letting the people know that he and webber had shared all the info on set ups and Vettel with always an open mind did shared all the knowledge of set up he had. But for some reason i feel Mark webber is playing the dirty game of not sharing things with his team and wanting to have upper hand by not following the policy of sharing info or set ups with the team and team mate.

Something is wrong. Does anyone else has a similar take?

Do you have this Vettel quote? I remember Nicole said that Heikki Kulta reported that Webber and his engineers found some info on the car set-up around Barcelona which they did not share with Vettel's team. So, there has already been a reliable report on that front. Now, I would like to know this exact quote of Vettel.

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2010, 06:57  
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Does anyone here know the details of Kimi's contract with Red Bull......Like how many years, money etc.
Was the contract he earlier signed worth the next year too...or he extended his contract for next year. This is ofcourse speculation as per the Autosport article.
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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2010, 07:24  
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SpaMaster wrote:
luieluv wrote:
And one significant point which i would like to make is that from a post race British GP interview of vettel i felt that vettel is discretely letting the people know that he and webber had shared all the info on set ups and Vettel with always an open mind did shared all the knowledge of set up he had. But for some reason i feel Mark webber is playing the dirty game of not sharing things with his team and wanting to have upper hand by not following the policy of sharing info or set ups with the team and team mate.

Something is wrong. Does anyone else has a similar take?

Do you have this Vettel quote? I remember Nicole said that Heikki Kulta reported that Webber and his engineers found some info on the car set-up around Barcelona which they did not share with Vettel's team. So, there has already been a reliable report on that front. Now, I would like to know this exact quote of Vettel.

No not the exact quote but i just read between the lines what vettel was actually claiming in one of his couple of latest interviews. I will just highlight it for you to ponder over it.

Vettel: All F1 drivers are egotists
http://www.planet-f1.com/news/3213/6268 ... e-egotists

Transcripts : ""We work together in certain areas to bring the team forward and to further develop the car. But apart from that everyone is focussed on himself and seeks his own advantage."

And now something from the below artice :

Vettel blames clutch for poor start
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85219

Transcripts : "Well, I obviously focus on myself and sort of see, I guess," said Vettel. "Especially after what happened in the past. People have different opinions, I have my opinion, I have made my experiences, sometimes good and bad, and you get to know people probably a bit better and see their true faces. I think I learned my lesson, and I focus on myself."

Now take a call for yourself. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2010, 09:37  
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Boudica wrote:
I dont know perhaps it is just me but I wouldn't want Kimi to drive for Red Bull F1. It is obvious that Vettel is the preferred one in the team, it is much like the situation between Kimi, Massa and Ferrari the last two years. The fact is when one driver is the preferred choice it becomes extremely difficult for the other driver, F1 is afterall a team sport. Red Bull have invested a lot in Vettel, and it seems like they are determined for that investment to pay off. My guess is even if Webber does leave the team somehow, they might just replace him with someone like Buemi, who can be a clear second driver for Vettel. Dont get me wrong I dont think Webber is totally blameless, washing your dirty laundry in public in F1 is never a good idea in the long run. And my prediction is that eventhough they are humouring Webber in public, he is going to pay for this. In a driver - team relationship a team has all the power, right now public sympathy lies with Webber because he was mistreated and he still triumphed, people always love stories like that. But what happens after three or four races when Webber isn't winning anymore? Things can go wrong so quickly, it is so easy for a team to adjust tyre pressures, have leaking hydrolic fluid, reset the gearbox, wrong gear ratio's ext. ext. Now I am not saying that Red Bull will do any of these stuff, I am just pointing out that a driver is at the mercy of his team. And the team can do many things without the public ever finding out, and F1 is a dirty business sometimes, and for the most part F1 fans are so gullible they will just blame the driver for being too slow. Webber speaking out like that in public is therefore not very clever for himself in the long run. But on the otherhand, Heikki last year kept quiet and he was still dumped by the team. The problem is if a driver is in this situation there isn't much he can do, the only solution is properly to leave the team at the end of the day.
That being said if Red Bull somehow loses the championships this year there will properly be hell to pay and they could even make Webber the scapegoat, because as long as they believe that Vettel is something special they will do everything that they can for him, and even if they do find him a new teammate it will not change the situation.

When it comes to the Kimi - Red Bull relationship I think they want him in WRC, one could even say that they need him in WRC. Because there is no other WRC driver that will give them the same amount of publicity, they have had Loeb for years and he cant do it. On top of that they now also have to compete against Monster, and Monster have Ken Block who is a popular personality. So I think they actually need Kimi in WRC, who cares if he is winning or not as long as he draws the crowds and media interest, which is something that Kimi has proven he can definitely do. Red Bull's main concern at the end of the day is advertising afterall.

As for Kimi I think it has been obvious for a while that he is staying in WRC. And I can understand why, he is trying out a completely new challenge and gets much more respect in WRC all around. It is true that WRC have their own problems, but it is very much the same with F1. It is not to say that Kimi will be winning when he goes back to F1, there are always so many factors that must fall into place for a driver to actually win. I see some people are concerned with Kimi's future status in Citroen. But I dont think that would be a problem because of Kimi's popularity and for the fact that Red Bull are investing in him. Loeb isn't going to drive forever there is lots of retirement talk surrounding him. I think if Kimi is really on pace with Ogier, they wouldn't hold him back and Red Bull would also properly have a lot of say in the situation. Interestingly enough I have read some rumours on some rally forums that Citroen are already thinking of placing Kimi above Ogier, so it is interesting that Ogier is flirting with Ford.

Kimi is taking on a very unique challenge, rally is properly the most difficult form of motorsport. Sure currently he isn't winning, but he is very much a novice it is obvious that he can only improve with a bit of experience and time. In fact I predict that he will be on the pace of the front runners in 1 - 2 years. So yes he might be losing out on the rest of his F1 career, but he is in the process of becoming a real motorsport legend.


Wow, Boudica! That is an awesome post! I have to agree with every of your words. :thumbsup:

About the dirty business in F1, Kimi became a victim of Ferrari too. Even though he was their last world champion since Schumi. So, it's easy to do it with Mark Webber. I agree with that too that at RB F1 team they are favouring Vettel and God knows what would happen if Kimi drove for them?

I agree with that too that RB needs Kimi in WRC. I can tell you that the biggest crowd was by Kimi's tent in Bulgaria, sometimes I found it even bigger than at Loeb's. It was funny to see that all the big stars in WRC got less of an attention than this rookie Kimi. LOL Of course his name is so big that for me it wasn't a surprise still was great to see.

And, Kimi needs rallying for himself. I'm more than sure now. I admit, I still miss him in F1, that will always be a bad taste in my mouth how he had to leave that sport and with (only) 1 world championship but what I could see about Kimi with my own eyes, what I could see about WRC, well, this is for him definitely. :)

I believe that he will be on the top in 1 or 2 years and yes, maybe when Loeb would retire by that time Kimi will be among his best. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2010, 09:42  
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luie: Okay, I had not seen the first article fully until now. I cannot see the exact thing you are saying. :p But there have been some murmurs along those lines. It would be interesting to see how they all go about it from now.

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 Post subject: Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2010, 19:26  
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I don't know if anybody has mentioned this but could it really be that the outcome of the Finnish Rally will decide what option Kimi will take up on for next year?

I do believe him when he says that he has several options but before he decides could it be that he wants to drive a rally that he already knows and has notes from to see the potential development he can make for next year?
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