Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next season?

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sleenster
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Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso

Post by sleenster » 14 Oct 2010, 14:38

luieluv wrote: yes that is something to be evaluated. And i feel It wont take much time for kimi to be back on to the pace.
I think what it comes down to is whether Red Bull feel that Kimi will be on the pace after two years away from F1.
luieluv wrote: As far as defending alonso is concerned its just that if any one is to be blamed for kimi not being in F1 then its not alonso. Its the most shameless and unethical team Ferrari. Just about that.
I really must have woken up in an alternate reality today because I have not heard anyone defending Alonso this year until today. :blink:

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Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso

Post by SilentKiller » 14 Oct 2010, 14:42

Too much speculation is not good for Health. :wave:

Lets just sit back, take a deep breath, relax and accept the fact that Kimi will be in WRC in a Monster funded Ford. :shhh:

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Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso

Post by luieluv » 14 Oct 2010, 14:44

And now Mini is contemplating to contest in more than 6 events.
So its gonna be a mix of Ravishing Black and White for Kimi Raikkonen this season

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Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso

Post by SilentKiller » 14 Oct 2010, 14:56

luieluv wrote:And now Mini is contemplating to contest in more than 6 events.
Dont think Mini is the correct option for Kimi.....its still very much in the developing stage...it will be tough for Kimi to figure out the setups and all even if the programme gets increased to slightly more than 6 events.

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Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso

Post by luieluv » 14 Oct 2010, 15:06

SilentKiller wrote:
luieluv wrote:And now Mini is contemplating to contest in more than 6 events.
Dont think Mini is the correct option for Kimi.....its still very much in the developing stage...it will be tough for Kimi to figure out the setups and all even if the programme gets increased to slightly more than 6 events.
Yes. A tough and a hard way to learn Rally. Could be a perfect way if Kimi wants to spend few years rallying. Though 60% of the programe is not good enough.
Last edited by luieluv on 14 Oct 2010, 15:15, edited 1 time in total.
So its gonna be a mix of Ravishing Black and White for Kimi Raikkonen this season

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Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso

Post by sleenster » 14 Oct 2010, 15:10

luieluv wrote:And now Mini is contemplating to contest in more than 6 events.
Hey luie do you remember on the TotalRally podcast with David Richards whether he said Kimi needed to bring sponsorship money to Mini for them to give him a seat?

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Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso

Post by luieluv » 14 Oct 2010, 15:14

sleenster wrote:
luieluv wrote:And now Mini is contemplating to contest in more than 6 events.
Hey luie do you remember on the TotalRally podcast with David Richards whether he said Kimi needed to bring sponsorship money to Mini for them to give him a seat?
I do remember it to an extent and i guess he did not say that Kimi will have to bring in sponsorship money. all he said was that they would be happy to have kimi with them as he was impressed by Kimi's participation and performance but he was very sure that Kimi wont join them. He said that openly and told that he thinks Kimi will stick to Citroen.

The commercial aspect was not spoken as such.
So its gonna be a mix of Ravishing Black and White for Kimi Raikkonen this season

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Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso

Post by bourbon » 14 Oct 2010, 15:15

Off-Topic: show
ReAlien wrote:
sleenster wrote:
ReAlien wrote:
sleenster wrote:If it wasn't Alonso who forced Kimi out, then why do so many Kimi fans feel hatred towards Alonso and Alonso fans then?
I despised Alonso long ago during his Renault years, then I got warmer to him thinking he changed as a man, after Pike-gate I feel the same about him. Nothing close to hating him for Ferrari-Santander trick.
You may not hate him personally, but the emotions Kimi fans feel towards Alonso ranges from mild dislike to hatred. My point is, whether or not Alonso had anything to do with forcing Kimi out, I haven't come across any Kimi fans that love Alonso for that and think that Ferrari made the right decision.
I just don't connect Alonso to Ferrari in this respect. Why blame him personally for Kimi's ousting?
Alonso IS among those responsible. He brought Santender along to Ferrari and now Ferrari is paying TWO drivers HUGE salaries. If you think they would be doing that without Alonso and his Banking buddies, you are mistaken. Alonso has been up to his ears in shady business since 2007. He was a culprit in spygate and then in crash gate. He protests his innocence, but I feel he is a liar and I think he is willing to go to great lengths for a win, especially a championship win. So I think Alonso didn't care at all about the fact that his actions would oust Kimi early because he is a shady kind of guy in my opinion based on all the things he's been involved in. Lying, cheating and stealing does not a pretty champion make...

So for me, it doesn't have anything to do with Kimi directly. I mean Piquet Jr., N. Rosberg, Massa, Stephney, and more have been affected by these terrible things Alonso has been involved in and for that reason I have a very, very, very low opinion of Alonso and I think ethically, he is at the bottom of the barrell. I don't blame him alone for these things, but I do blame him for participating in them with full knowledge that he was engaged in wrongful dealings. In the case with Ferrari, it wasn't what was done, but how it was done and Alonso apparently had no problem with that. He changed his tune when he found himself in difficulties - but now that he's doing better, he's gone egotistical again. Based on what I have seen, I truly believe Alonso is not to be trusted. Alguersuari remarked that he was a "cold" man and I believe it. It takes a person of that type to behave the way Alonso has done and play a role in the use and abuse of others, seemingly with little to no remorse. That is how he comes across to me. You can't just run roughshod over people and hope that everyone will hold you blameless and love you - see M. Schumacher...
Every mile I have with the Citroen C4 WRC is giving a certain pleasure - Kimi Raikkonen
My ideal is to win the race at the slowest speed possible - Alain Prost
You should just stick with those people who are really there for you - Sebastian Vettel

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Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso

Post by Linda-Anne » 14 Oct 2010, 15:25

bourbon wrote:
Off-Topic: show
ReAlien wrote:
sleenster wrote:
ReAlien wrote:
sleenster wrote:If it wasn't Alonso who forced Kimi out, then why do so many Kimi fans feel hatred towards Alonso and Alonso fans then?
I despised Alonso long ago during his Renault years, then I got warmer to him thinking he changed as a man, after Pike-gate I feel the same about him. Nothing close to hating him for Ferrari-Santander trick.
You may not hate him personally, but the emotions Kimi fans feel towards Alonso ranges from mild dislike to hatred. My point is, whether or not Alonso had anything to do with forcing Kimi out, I haven't come across any Kimi fans that love Alonso for that and think that Ferrari made the right decision.
I just don't connect Alonso to Ferrari in this respect. Why blame him personally for Kimi's ousting?
Alonso IS among those responsible. He brought Santender along to Ferrari and now Ferrari is paying TWO drivers HUGE salaries. If you think they would be doing that without Alonso and his Banking buddies, you are mistaken. Alonso has been up to his ears in shady business since 2007. He was a culprit in spygate and then in crash gate. He protests his innocence, but I feel he is a liar and I think he is willing to go to great lengths for a win, especially a championship win. So I think Alonso didn't care at all about the fact that his actions would oust Kimi early because he is a shady kind of guy in my opinion based on all the things he's been involved in. Lying, cheating and stealing does not a pretty champion make...

So for me, it doesn't have anything to do with Kimi directly. I mean Piquet Jr., N. Rosberg, Massa, Stephney, and more have been affected by these terrible things Alonso has been involved in and for that reason I have a very, very, very low opinion of Alonso and I think ethically, he is at the bottom of the barrell. I don't blame him alone for these things, but I do blame him for participating in them with full knowledge that he was engaged in wrongful dealings. In the case with Ferrari, it wasn't what was done, but how it was done and Alonso apparently had no problem with that. He changed his tune when he found himself in difficulties - but now that he's doing better, he's gone egotistical again. Based on what I have seen, I truly believe Alonso is not to be trusted. Alguersuari remarked that he was a "cold" man and I believe it. It takes a person of that type to behave the way Alonso has done and play a role in the use and abuse of others, seemingly with little to no remorse. That is how he comes across to me. You can't just run roughshod over people and hope that everyone will hold you blameless and love you - see M. Schumacher...
Very well said .....my thoughts exactly

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Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso

Post by Wolfie » 14 Oct 2010, 15:26

Hope you don't mind me putting some of your comments in 'off-topic'?

I got whipped by Iceman Image

:lol:
To be changed soon - rko281, where are you??? LOL

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Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso

Post by sleenster » 14 Oct 2010, 15:27

Linda-Anne wrote:
bourbon wrote:
Off-Topic: show
Alonso IS among those responsible. He brought Santender along to Ferrari and now Ferrari is paying TWO drivers HUGE salaries. If you think they would be doing that without Alonso and his Banking buddies, you are mistaken. Alonso has been up to his ears in shady business since 2007. He was a culprit in spygate and then in crash gate. He protests his innocence, but I feel he is a liar and I think he is willing to go to great lengths for a win, especially a championship win. So I think Alonso didn't care at all about the fact that his actions would oust Kimi early because he is a shady kind of guy in my opinion based on all the things he's been involved in. Lying, cheating and stealing does not a pretty champion make...

So for me, it doesn't have anything to do with Kimi directly. I mean Piquet Jr., N. Rosberg, Massa, Stephney, and more have been affected by these terrible things Alonso has been involved in and for that reason I have a very, very, very low opinion of Alonso and I think ethically, he is at the bottom of the barrell. I don't blame him alone for these things, but I do blame him for participating in them with full knowledge that he was engaged in wrongful dealings. In the case with Ferrari, it wasn't what was done, but how it was done and Alonso apparently had no problem with that. He changed his tune when he found himself in difficulties - but now that he's doing better, he's gone egotistical again. Based on what I have seen, I truly believe Alonso is not to be trusted. Alguersuari remarked that he was a "cold" man and I believe it. It takes a person of that type to behave the way Alonso has done and play a role in the use and abuse of others, seemingly with little to no remorse. That is how he comes across to me. You can't just run roughshod over people and hope that everyone will hold you blameless and love you - see M. Schumacher...
Very well said .....my thoughts exactly
Off-Topic: show
*phew* I am so relieved that all is right with the world again. I was beginning to think that this was actually a pro-Alonso forum disguised as a Kimi forum and that I was being trolled. :lol:

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Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso

Post by SilentKiller » 14 Oct 2010, 15:30

Wolfie wrote:Hope you don't mind me putting some of your comments in 'off-topic'?

I got whipped by Iceman Image

:lol:
Off-Topic: show
OK....that smiley and your tone are very.......I should say.....BDSMic :n

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Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso

Post by luieluv » 14 Oct 2010, 15:34

Off-Topic: show
bourbon wrote:
ReAlien wrote:
sleenster wrote:
ReAlien wrote:
sleenster wrote:If it wasn't Alonso who forced Kimi out, then why do so many Kimi fans feel hatred towards Alonso and Alonso fans then?
I despised Alonso long ago during his Renault years, then I got warmer to him thinking he changed as a man, after Pike-gate I feel the same about him. Nothing close to hating him for Ferrari-Santander trick.
You may not hate him personally, but the emotions Kimi fans feel towards Alonso ranges from mild dislike to hatred. My point is, whether or not Alonso had anything to do with forcing Kimi out, I haven't come across any Kimi fans that love Alonso for that and think that Ferrari made the right decision.
I just don't connect Alonso to Ferrari in this respect. Why blame him personally for Kimi's ousting?
Alonso IS among those responsible. He brought Santender along to Ferrari and now Ferrari is paying TWO drivers HUGE salaries. If you think they would be doing that without Alonso and his Banking buddies, you are mistaken. Alonso has been up to his ears in shady business since 2007. He was a culprit in spygate and then in crash gate. He protests his innocence, but I feel he is a liar and I think he is willing to go to great lengths for a win, especially a championship win. So I think Alonso didn't care at all about the fact that his actions would oust Kimi early because he is a shady kind of guy in my opinion based on all the things he's been involved in. Lying, cheating and stealing does not a pretty champion make...

So for me, it doesn't have anything to do with Kimi directly. I mean Piquet Jr., N. Rosberg, Massa, Stephney, and more have been affected by these terrible things Alonso has been involved in and for that reason I have a very, very, very low opinion of Alonso and I think ethically, he is at the bottom of the barrell. I don't blame him alone for these things, but I do blame him for participating in them with full knowledge that he was engaged in wrongful dealings. In the case with Ferrari, it wasn't what was done, but how it was done and Alonso apparently had no problem with that. He changed his tune when he found himself in difficulties - but now that he's doing better, he's gone egotistical again. Based on what I have seen, I truly believe Alonso is not to be trusted. Alguersuari remarked that he was a "cold" and not very nice guy - and I believe it. It takes a person of that type to behave the way Alonso has done and play a role in the use and abuse of others, seemingly with little to no remorse. That is how he comes across to me.

And just so you know it isn't just regarding Alonso, I have similar feelings regarding Schumi regarding all his actions/behavior in the past - although I have to say he seems to have changed. Can't say the same for Alonso.
I agree that it takes a two for a tango. But In this case Alonso did not forced Ferrari to do that. It was the team who behaved in utter unprofessional and shameless manner. You cant blame alonso as he had his sponsor buddies and he put up an offer. He could not have guessed whether the team will accept the offer or not and nor could he have guessed that Kimi will be completely out of F1. There was seat up for grabs at mclaren and Its not Alonso's job to ensure that Kimi takes up that place.

IMHO, Its Ferrari who are to be blamed completely. I mean they had agreement already with alonso and santander for 2011 and i cant think of anything but money which got them lured to push the deal earlier. Thats even worst than what Alonso did with Mclaren. I am a Mclaren ardent and i have to admit that Alonso was the major reason for the disharmony created in the team and was highly responsible for the spy gate stuff.

But that said compare the situation at Mclaren with the offer at Ferrari. He could not force Mclaren to give him No1 status and perhaps all his money could not lure Mclaren to retain alonso and throw out Hamilton. did they?. And here we have a one hell of a f**k**g cunt of a team, Ferrari who at the sight of money were lured to sleep with Alonso. the repercussion for the same was that Kimi had to leave F1. Now this could have been avoided if Ferrari would have opted to be true to their integrity like Mclaren. But no, the problem is that even with Schumi they were always like this. Unsporting, Unethical, Shameless bunch. They are a disgrace in real sense to F1. May they rot in Hell.

So in my opinion its the team to be blamed and not Alonso. Its not his fault if he wants a competitive drive and goes shopping for it. He has so much of money riding over him and possibly couldnt have wasted one more year without a shot at the title with Renault. So he is very much right to go around shopping with all his money. Its up to the team to be true to their contracts and existing drivers and be fair. Kimi had given his heart to the team and his 2009 performance was there to be seen. Yet the team failed heavily in terms of passing the test of being a team.
So its gonna be a mix of Ravishing Black and White for Kimi Raikkonen this season

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Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso

Post by Wolfie » 14 Oct 2010, 15:37

Since there has been so much talk about Red Bull and how they manage things, here's one article from a Finnish F1-reporter who often divides opinions but this is interesting anyway:
Spoiler:
THE NEW F1-MIGHTY

5.4.2010
Jukka Mildh

Image

Red Bull's double victory in Malaysia is a clear sign. The new motorsport mighty is rising. It has been almost impossible to break the traditional teams that are built on stone. Especially for a long time. Now this is happening.

Red Bull isn't yet leading the championship serie but you can still say that it's the leading F1-team at the moment. The team is a unity that works best and it has brilliant drivers. It has a car that has been superior when it comes to speed. The car has been designed carefully. Even so carefully that the team had the guts to skip several testing days before the season started. They have found a technical solution to the car which makes it superior to other cars when it comes to drivability and setups. The solution isn't as overwhelming as last year's double diffuser but the team has found something to the suspension. Something that they keep very well hidden.

****

In order to explain the reasons why Red Bull is the new F1-mighty, let's review the matter by painting a bigger picture.

Red Bull was built on the ruins of Jaguar. In practice the team has been developed with determination, in their own way and with a long-term plan from day one. Into their own direction.

Surprisingly they chose the former racer Christian Horner to run the team. I have to admit that at that time, five years ago, I didn't appreaciate Horner as a leader. He was leading Arden's GP-team and starting the F1-activity at the same time. Heikki Kovalainen drove back then for Arden in GP2 and the team made some weird decisions that for example suffocated the car's developmentwork. They were good in the beginning of the season and Kovalainen was leading the serie. Then all of a sudden everything stopped and Kovalainen's dreams of championship vanished at the same time.

Was this because of Horner's busy schedule or his way to act? Partly.

But I have to acknowledge today that the youngest team manager in F1 has done a good job. He has used the race budget well and got the right people to work for him in the right way. The most crucial choice of personnel was technical manager Adrian Newey who came to Red Bull from McLaren at the end of 2005.

Mark Webber declared after the race in front of the media in Malaysia that there is a good spirit inside the team. It's a significant thing in sporting and in companies. Also in F1 where these are one and the same.

You could sense the good spirit years ago. The feeling is lifted by the energy drink -company's attitude and modern grip to things. They do their jobs properly but quickly. Without forgetting the spark in the eye.

****

Drivers Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel are like day and night as persons. It was clearly seen from their faces after Malaysia GP. Whereas Vettel had the strenght to smile after a tough race Webber again was serious almost the whole time.

There are different kinds of attitudes but in the long run taking things too seriously might turn against you. Webber is a stonehard sportsman and a fast driver but he shows too easily his disappointments and shows in this way to his team mate and to the outside world his weaknesses. Vettel calls Webber a poker face but the Australian can't necessarily keep his cards close enough to his chest.

Webber got frustrated back in the times in Williams. He thought he went as a king to a winning team only to find himself in the team's strong falling trend. Webber thought that his chances to win the championship were vanishing. That's why Red Bull's contract came as a gift from God. He got into an ambitious project which had enough money to use. There was more or less only one sponsor and that's why he had less PR-work. This enabled him to concentrate only on the most important; to drive and perform. This is rare in most F1-teams where the driver's calendar is filled outside the races.

Webber is now sitting in a winning car but he has got to put more than everything into the game. He didn't get the first driver's place and he has to fight against Sebastian Vettel who is 11 years younger than him.

The race between the drivers is extremely tough but it's taking the team forward. Of all the driver pairings at the moment Webber and Vettel are the most harmonic even though they are opposites to each other.

****

Red Bull has chosen most of their drivers to their F1-program outside their own junior program. Helmut Marko, former F3-manager with a long line in motorsport and a debated person, often seen on the F1-paddock, he is in charge of the junior program's budget. His words is strong when it comes to choosing drivers to lower series but on F1-level decisions are made using different criterias. They include the team manager, the technical manager and of course the one who gives the blessing, the owner Dietrich Mateschitz.

One secret to success has been these wise driver choices. In the beginning they assumed that Red Bull would use especially their juniors since they have pumped millions of euros into them. F1 is yet a sport where youthful talent and eagerness isn't enough. The choices have to be made damn carefully and everything has to be taken into consideration.

You can now see the wisdom in hiring experienced drivers like David Coulthard and Mark Webber.

The wholeness is perfect. On top of Red Bull getting into the winner's circle they also get to cash in the fruits which seeds they have planted with a big hand all over the world. Sebastian Vettel has practically raced during his whole racing career with Red Bull's money. In the meantime he has become a diamond. Vettel is only 22-years old and he is without doubt the fastest driver in F1 at the moment.

One shouldn't forget that he was 2nd in the championship serie last year!

****

Red Bull has existed for only six years. And it's already as mighty as Ferrari who has been in F1 ever since the 50's. You see rarely a development curve like this, very rarely.

Teams come and go. They rise and fall down. Many try to create a similar success story but only very few new entrepreneurs succeed in it.

Owners, sponsors and partners should be committed to at least five years, even ten years at a time. In practice you don't have quarters like that these days. You also have to get a committed personnel and make them give their everything for a certain cause. The whole team has to be made attractive to the best possible drivers and top engineers.

You have to find the optimal solution.

What is it then?

Let's review Ferrari's pattern. Racing belongs to the car factory's culture. During good and bad financial times the participation to F1 wasn't even questioned. Never.

The team has significant partners but all the decisions are made in Maranello and only in Maranello. Other teams feel the draft coming from many directions. You start giving too much power to significant partners so that they will stay with you.

Ferrari is one of the world's leading and most known brands. It attracts partners and strenghtens more than before Ferrari management's power to run the team's racing activity freely. Partners need Ferrari more than Ferrari needs them.

Ferrari's bosses have always been worshipped persons. Ferrari's culture is so mighty that the team's victories even get the church bells ringing. The Black Stallion is the symbol of victory and success.

Red Bull has as a company aswell as a team a short history and a young culture compared to Ferrari. But the pattern is similar.

I don't think it's a sacrilege to compare Enzo Ferrari and Dieter Mateschitz. Each success story requires a strong, initiative and idealistic person.

A Finnish top boss told me once about his experience when meeting Dieter Mateschitz for the first time in Red Bull headquarters in Austria. "When he stepped into the room through high doors made of oak his charisma filled the whole room."

Enzo Ferrari had the same affect on people.

Everybody wants to be dealing with Red Bull and Mateschitz. Red Bull is a tough brand and Mateschitz is a great boss, success personified. On top of that he has one significant limitating factor compared to other team owners. Mateschitz's own economy is in no way depending on the success of his F1-team.

Red Bull's quality is top class, no matter what the company does. It has conquered their own markets and F1-tracks quickly but convincingly. Soon we can even start talking about permanence.

I have made my own conclusions of a success pattern. The solution is in all it's simplicity that the main sponsor and the owner have to be the one and the same. You have to swear to only one name.

The Black Stallion has been the genre's leading figure throughout it's whole history.

And now it has got a threat on it's premises.

The Red Bull.
To be changed soon - rko281, where are you??? LOL

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Re: Speculation-thread: Will Kimi be in WRC or F1 next seaso

Post by Wolfie » 14 Oct 2010, 15:52

And I would like to add to the article the following: Jukka Mildh is pro-Ferrari and pro-Alonso and he seemed to completely dismiss Santander as a sponsor :zz:
To be changed soon - rko281, where are you??? LOL

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