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 Post subject: Re: Rally News
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2011, 13:06  
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Joined: 23 May 2010, 06:44
Posts: 1608
luieluv wrote:
sleenster wrote:
luieluv wrote:
sleenster wrote:
luieluv wrote:
own engineers and own mechanics???
If i understand it correctly then Ice 1 Racing will have to employ a whole set of engineers and mechanics which would be trained and assisted by Citroen Technical team.

In this case who would be kimi's main engineer?

As I understood it, Citroen will provide the engineers and mechanics (which are trained by Citroen) but Ice 1 Racing will have to pay for them.

Wll could be but i guess that was not the case with Petter's team last year so why would be an exception for kimi. Or was it same with petter too last season?

It could be that Petter and Kimi's situations are slightly different. Petter already has engineers and mechanics so they can be trained by Citroen but Kimi doesn't so it would be easiest for Citroen to provide the engineers and mechanics for Kimi and Kimi just has to pay for them.

Point taken. I hope thats the case too. That would be good for Ice 1 Racing.


+1

PH-sport, the company that Citroen Racing hired to run their b-team (CJT) in the past years and also run their factory drivers in other series such as IRC .... seems this year have been hired to coordinate the citroen satellite teams and give the citroen racing service to citroens satellite teams in WRC. There shouldn't bee any obsticals for kimi and PH-sport to make a deal that -sport runs ICE 1 racing functions totally, quite the same way as last year they run Kimis part of CJT. I remember Nogier saying quite many times that they like Kimi a lot and want to continue with Kimi and one of the reasons Kimi said he was thinking of continue with citroen was apart from the car also the team (ie the PH-sport guys) ... so why change things that isnt broken? but there can always e twists that we dont know about but, im still believing that we see the same guys around Kimi also this year, they just run under a different banner... :thumbsup:

just as curiosity ...did you guys know that PH-sport is co-owned by Loeb?
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 Post subject: Re: Rally News
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2011, 13:29  
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and now when we know that quesnell is very clear that the Citroen satellite teams are not manufacture teams but autonom privateers and Wilson sr again is stating that their satellite teams are ford manufactury teams ... can somebody explain the difference between the teams (i dont see any difference at the moment?)... I thought I got it but now I am confused again. How can you enter a private team (ICE 1 racing) to the manufactor championship? ... or are the any other difference that that by Quesnell saying that citroen satellite teams are autonom privateers he is underlining that they arent under Citroen team orders and can do whatever they like in the competitions.... and all the ford drivers are going to stay nicely behind Hirvonen and latvala??
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 Post subject: Re: Rally News
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2011, 13:34  
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Julia wrote:
and now when we know that quesnell is very clear that the Citroen satellite teams are not manufacture teams but autonom privateers and Wilson sr again is stating that their satellite teams are ford manufactury teams ... can somebody explain the difference between the teams (i dont see any difference at the moment?)... I thought I got it but now I am confused again. How can you enter a private team (ICE 1 racing) to the manufactor championship? ... or are the any other difference that that by Quesnell saying that citroen satellite teams are autonom privateers he is underlining that they arent under Citroen team orders and can do whatever they like in the competitions.... and all the ford drivers are going to stay nicely behind Hirvonen and latvala??


I think whether team is satellite or not, they are supposed to listen team orders. At least that is what Petter pointed out during Rally Finland last summer..
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 Post subject: Re: Rally News
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2011, 13:44  
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sammyosammy wrote:
Julia wrote:
and now when we know that quesnell is very clear that the Citroen satellite teams are not manufacture teams but autonom privateers and Wilson sr again is stating that their satellite teams are ford manufactury teams ... can somebody explain the difference between the teams (i dont see any difference at the moment?)... I thought I got it but now I am confused again. How can you enter a private team (ICE 1 racing) to the manufactor championship? ... or are the any other difference that that by Quesnell saying that citroen satellite teams are autonom privateers he is underlining that they arent under Citroen team orders and can do whatever they like in the competitions.... and all the ford drivers are going to stay nicely behind Hirvonen and latvala??


I think whether team is satellite or not, they are supposed to listen team orders. At least that is what Petter pointed out during Rally Finland last summer..


but quesnell is stating that the teams are satellite teams but also autonome privateers...

yeah, the team order thing was the only thing I at the moment see as a different but before today I thought that you cant enter a private team to score points in FIA manufacture championship but seems to be OK.. so the only way you know the different is how the manufacture boss is talking about the team and if the team is following team orders....

oh, well looking at the citroen situation I understand that both Petter and Quesnell wants to make it very clear that the satellite teams have the right to compete against the main team drivers... and that is not the case with ford..
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 Post subject: Re: Rally News
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2011, 14:02  
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Julia wrote:
sammyosammy wrote:
Julia wrote:
and now when we know that quesnell is very clear that the Citroen satellite teams are not manufacture teams but autonom privateers and Wilson sr again is stating that their satellite teams are ford manufactury teams ... can somebody explain the difference between the teams (i dont see any difference at the moment?)... I thought I got it but now I am confused again. How can you enter a private team (ICE 1 racing) to the manufactor championship? ... or are the any other difference that that by Quesnell saying that citroen satellite teams are autonom privateers he is underlining that they arent under Citroen team orders and can do whatever they like in the competitions.... and all the ford drivers are going to stay nicely behind Hirvonen and latvala??


I think whether team is satellite or not, they are supposed to listen team orders. At least that is what Petter pointed out during Rally Finland last summer..


but quesnell is stating that the teams are satellite teams but also autonome privateers...

yeah, the team order thing was the only thing I at the moment see as a different but before today I thought that you cant enter a private team to score points in FIA manufacture championship but seems to be OK.. so the only way you know the different is how the manufacture boss is talking about the team and if the team is following team orders....

oh, well looking at the citroen situation I understand that both Petter and Quesnell wants to make it very clear that the satellite teams have the right to compete against the main team drivers... and that is not the case with ford..


Remains to be seen.. :)
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 Post subject: Re: Rally News
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2011, 15:38  
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Joined: 20 Oct 2010, 08:48
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Julia wrote:
and now when we know that quesnell is very clear that the Citroen satellite teams are not manufacture teams but autonom privateers and Wilson sr again is stating that their satellite teams are ford manufactury teams ... can somebody explain the difference between the teams (i dont see any difference at the moment?)... I thought I got it but now I am confused again. How can you enter a private team (ICE 1 racing) to the manufactor championship? ... or are the any other difference that that by Quesnell saying that citroen satellite teams are autonom privateers he is underlining that they arent under Citroen team orders and can do whatever they like in the competitions.... and all the ford drivers are going to stay nicely behind Hirvonen and latvala??


Since the FIA rules only allow a championship to have a Manufacturers' championship if there are at least 3 of them, the trick the FIA is using not to lose the WRC manufacturer's championship is to allow the teams to score points for the Manufacturers'; as if they were manufacturers and not teams.

"Manufacturers" can make points in all rally rounds with their two cars and "teams" only in those rallies they nominated when they entered the championship (with one or two cars, depending on how many the team gave in the entry).

That means Kimi must have nominated at least 7 rallies in his entry form, at least two of them outside Europe (weird, because Robertson said he was not going to the oversea ones). In case Kimi decides to take part in any more rallies than those he nominated, he will be elegible to score drivers' points there but not for manufacturers.
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 Post subject: Re: Rally News
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2011, 15:46  
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Joined: 23 May 2010, 06:44
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Mar wrote:
Julia wrote:
and now when we know that quesnell is very clear that the Citroen satellite teams are not manufacture teams but autonom privateers and Wilson sr again is stating that their satellite teams are ford manufactury teams ... can somebody explain the difference between the teams (i dont see any difference at the moment?)... I thought I got it but now I am confused again. How can you enter a private team (ICE 1 racing) to the manufactor championship? ... or are the any other difference that that by Quesnell saying that citroen satellite teams are autonom privateers he is underlining that they arent under Citroen team orders and can do whatever they like in the competitions.... and all the ford drivers are going to stay nicely behind Hirvonen and latvala??


Since the FIA rules only allow a championship to have a Manufacturers' championship if there are at least 3 of them, the trick the FIA is using not to lose the WRC manufacturer's championship is to allow the teams to score points for the Manufacturers'; as if they were manufacturers and not teams.

"Manufacturers" can make points in all rally rounds with their two cars and "teams" only in those rallies they nominated when they entered the championship (with one or two cars, depending on how many the team gave in the entry).

That means Kimi must have nominated at least 7 rallies in his entry form, at least two of them outside Europe (weird, because Robertson said he was not going to the oversea ones). In case Kimi decides to take part in any more rallies than those he nominated, he will be elegible to score drivers' points there but not for manufacturers.


I continuing with stupid questions, because i still dont get the differens .... but CJT couldnt score points in all the rounds last year, they didnt get manufacture point for Ogier in NZ ... so according to that logic they where also just a team , not a manufacture team last year (atleast acording to FIA) But Quesnell was calling them a manufacture team last year?

about Kimi and this year, i also notice the same thing... there is just jordan outside europe at the moment, but lets wait till the official announcement of the program....
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 Post subject: Re: Rally News
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2011, 16:01  
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Joined: 20 Oct 2010, 08:48
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Julia wrote:
Mar wrote:
Julia wrote:
and now when we know that quesnell is very clear that the Citroen satellite teams are not manufacture teams but autonom privateers and Wilson sr again is stating that their satellite teams are ford manufactury teams ... can somebody explain the difference between the teams (i dont see any difference at the moment?)... I thought I got it but now I am confused again. How can you enter a private team (ICE 1 racing) to the manufactor championship? ... or are the any other difference that that by Quesnell saying that citroen satellite teams are autonom privateers he is underlining that they arent under Citroen team orders and can do whatever they like in the competitions.... and all the ford drivers are going to stay nicely behind Hirvonen and latvala??


Since the FIA rules only allow a championship to have a Manufacturers' championship if there are at least 3 of them, the trick the FIA is using not to lose the WRC manufacturer's championship is to allow the teams to score points for the Manufacturers'; as if they were manufacturers and not teams.

"Manufacturers" can make points in all rally rounds with their two cars and "teams" only in those rallies they nominated when they entered the championship (with one or two cars, depending on how many the team gave in the entry).

That means Kimi must have nominated at least 7 rallies in his entry form, at least two of them outside Europe (weird, because Robertson said he was not going to the oversea ones). In case Kimi decides to take part in any more rallies than those he nominated, he will be elegible to score drivers' points there but not for manufacturers.


I continuing with stupid questions, because i still dont get the differens .... but CJT couldnt score points in all the rounds last year, they didnt get manufacture point for Ogier in NZ ... so according to that logic they where also just a team , not a manufacture team last year (atleast acording to FIA) But Quesnell was calling them a manufacture team last year?

That’s what I never understood from last season :confused: . In the championship entry list, CJT had drivers’ names. That should mean, the CJT entered as a manufacturer, not as a team. But then they weren’t supposed to do NZ, and the FIA accepted it. It makes no sense.

Sometimes, I suspect the FIA bends the rules in the WRC to keep Citroën and Ford happy. :zz:

Julia wrote:
about Kimi and this year, i also notice the same thing... there is just jordan outside europe at the moment, but lets wait till the official announcement of the program....


You think he will be nice and tell something official about what he’s going to do this season? I could bet we won’t know which colours Kimi’s car will have until shakedown in Sweden. :<>:
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 Post subject: Re: Rally News
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2011, 16:24  
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Joined: 23 May 2010, 06:44
Posts: 1608
Mar wrote:
Julia wrote:
Mar wrote:
Julia wrote:
and now when we know that quesnell is very clear that the Citroen satellite teams are not manufacture teams but autonom privateers and Wilson sr again is stating that their satellite teams are ford manufactury teams ... can somebody explain the difference between the teams (i dont see any difference at the moment?)... I thought I got it but now I am confused again. How can you enter a private team (ICE 1 racing) to the manufactor championship? ... or are the any other difference that that by Quesnell saying that citroen satellite teams are autonom privateers he is underlining that they arent under Citroen team orders and can do whatever they like in the competitions.... and all the ford drivers are going to stay nicely behind Hirvonen and latvala??


Since the FIA rules only allow a championship to have a Manufacturers' championship if there are at least 3 of them, the trick the FIA is using not to lose the WRC manufacturer's championship is to allow the teams to score points for the Manufacturers'; as if they were manufacturers and not teams.

"Manufacturers" can make points in all rally rounds with their two cars and "teams" only in those rallies they nominated when they entered the championship (with one or two cars, depending on how many the team gave in the entry).

That means Kimi must have nominated at least 7 rallies in his entry form, at least two of them outside Europe (weird, because Robertson said he was not going to the oversea ones). In case Kimi decides to take part in any more rallies than those he nominated, he will be elegible to score drivers' points there but not for manufacturers.


I continuing with stupid questions, because i still dont get the differens .... but CJT couldnt score points in all the rounds last year, they didnt get manufacture point for Ogier in NZ ... so according to that logic they where also just a team , not a manufacture team last year (atleast acording to FIA) But Quesnell was calling them a manufacture team last year?

That’s what I never understood from last season :confused: . In the championship entry list, CJT had drivers’ names. That should mean, the CJT entered as a manufacturer, not as a team. But then they weren’t supposed to do NZ, and the FIA accepted it. It makes no sense.

Sometimes, I suspect the FIA bends the rules in the WRC to keep Citroën and Ford happy. :zz:

Julia wrote:
about Kimi and this year, i also notice the same thing... there is just jordan outside europe at the moment, but lets wait till the official announcement of the program....


You think he will be nice and tell something official about what he’s going to do this season? I could bet we won’t know which colours Kimi’s car will have until shakedown in Sweden. :<>:


good that I am not the only one who didnt understand NZ back then and understand it even less now... :confused: but maybe FIA bending the rulez a little ... and ICE 1 racing entered as as team can of course also be FIA bending the rules for more publicity.... didnt Kuipers also planning to do just 10 rallies (not the oversees) and he is also entered as a team...

well, I still pinning hopes for a proper announcement but I also am realistic and waiting nicely for the first paparazzi pictures ... :lol:

my logic said that you usually first put out an announcement that you going to enter a series before entering yourselves in the first competition but it seems that I was wrong... you can very well "announce" that you compete in the series by just entering yourselves in the first competition! :thumbsup:

...the rallydrivers had their overalls on already on the FIA opening ceremony in Paris so I am hoping for some reveling pictures already this month ... and we usually do get a picture of his car already in the beginning of the week... Im positive here :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Rally News
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2011, 16:56  
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I was wondering about that team thing too but I think I got it now. obviously in the past there were only manufacturers in the championship but when there were only Citroen and Ford left they had to allow others too like Stobard and Citroen Junior. those were "Manufacturer teams" compared to the "Manufacturers". and last year the term "Manufacturer team" was replaced by "WRC team". so I guess Quesnel or Wilson were only calling them still manufacturer team while they meant WRC team.

about those 2 rallies outside europe... do they have to nominate the rallies together with the registration or can that be changed later?
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 Post subject: Re: Rally News
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2011, 15:26  
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miezicat wrote:
Rallye-Magazin has an interesting article about pace notes. at Rally Germany they asked the co-drivers to show them the first page of the first SS to compare them.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9186/39846808.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5250/77352284.jpg
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2386/52639974.jpg
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2672/84628662.jpg
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/989/11519021.jpg
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/5209/20657788.jpg
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2223/17874655.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6558/88880409.jpg

I have translated the part about Kimi's pace notes
Quote:
Basis: special (identical to finnish colleagues) nearly DIN A4 with ring connection to open (for change of pages). With pencil, depending on effort corrected or changed. One book for one day. No SS index. Paging ascending with total number.

Style: classic, static from top to bottom in Finnish (like Tommi Mäkinen). Meter information. First direction, “V” (=Vasen) for left, “O” (=Oikealle) for right, then curve radius in numbers from “1” (hair-pin) to “6” (full). To give Kimi detailed road information, Kaj is working with many symbols and signs like “adh” (narrow), “h” (directly), “Ω “ (wave), “Ø” (cut) “!” (Caution), “TA” (full) and words like “RIST” for junction, “TAKA” (short hair-pin) etc.
In their first WRC year Kaj and Kimi are optimising the pace notes by amount and content of information all the time. Like Block a WRC rookie, Kimi has to learn very quickly to get precise pace notes on unknown roads. On the first page Kaj leaves some space for possible additional information.

Here: 21 pages for SS 1/4
Detail: “L” – (Lähtö), 30 meter (“30”), right full (“O6”)



Danke Miezchen :hug:

Wow they are pretty wasteful with their sheets... poor rainforest :DDD

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 Post subject: Re: Rally News
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2011, 17:38  
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Night stage for Acropolis Rally

By David Evans Monday, January 17th 2011, 16:34 GMT

This year's Acropolis Rally will run with a night stage after the organisers revised the route for the event following its year out of the World Rally Championship.

The classic Greek event wasn't included last year due to the FIA's rotation policy of WRC rounds, but it will run in its traditional June date in 2011.

The inclusion of the 12-mile Nea Politia test on Saturday night (starting at 2133) means competitors will run in the dark on this event for the first time in the WRC's recent history.

The opening day of the event has the most changes, with a return to the stages north-west of Athens, meaning the Elatia, Eleftherohori and Rengini stages are included for the first time since 2005.

The rest of the event remains largely unchanged. Sunday afternoon's 'power stage', which will run live on television, will be the day's second run through the seven-mile New Pissia stage.

The Acropolis Rally, which will be the seventh round of the WRC running from June 16-19 will again be based in Loutraki, close to the Corinth canal.

Autosport

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 Post subject: Re: Rally News
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2011, 18:01  
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Rally Guide 1 published

http://www.acropolisrally.gr/userfiles/ ... uide01.pdf
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 Post subject: Re: Rally News
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2011, 18:02  
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^^ Cool, sounds amazing! :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Rally News
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2011, 18:16  
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Quote:
MINI targeting podiums in 2011, title by 2013

David Richards has set ambitious targets for the new Prodrive-run MINI World Rally Championship (WRC) programme - podiums this year, and the title by 2013...
David Richards has conceded that the ultimate goal for the Prodrive-run MINI assault on the World Rally Championship (WRC) has to be to clinch the crown – and he has set a three-year timeframe within which he expects to be duelling for glory.

It was announced last summer that MINI – one of the most iconic names in rallying, with legends such as Paddy Hopkirk, Timo Mäkinen and Rauno Aaltonen having all swept to victory on the Monte Carlo Rally using the Cooper – will return to the WRC from this season, powered by a 1.6-litre, turbocharged BMW Motorsport engine in adherence with the new Super 2000 regulations.

It is a long-term project, and Richards' ultra-successful Prodrive operation has been entrusted with its development, with Citroën refugee Dani Sordo and 2009 Intercontinental Rally Challenge (IRC) Champion Kris Meeke on the driving strength – more of which later in the week. To that end, 2010 will be a part-campaign, with Richards hinting at an entry on half a dozen events over the latter half of the season.

“There's a lot going on and it's all hands to the pump,” the Welshman acknowledged, speaking exclusively to Crash.net at the 2011 Autosport International show. “I don't think there are any spare hours in the day at the moment!

“Testing is going very well – we've had, touchwood, a very smooth run so far without any significant problems. There have obviously been minor issues, but nothing that has delayed us or given us any real concerns.

“The debut is going to be determined by the test programme, by the homologation of the car – which is due to take place in March – and then finally by production of components. Strangely enough, the production side is proving to be the most difficult challenge of all of these.

“The goals are to ultimately win the title, and there's no getting away from that – by 2013, the target is to be contenders for the world championship. Prior to then, we clearly have to win events, and this year I would hope that we'll be challenging for podium positions in our first season.”

It is an ambitious programme and one that has fans enthralled, and the 58-year-old agrees that the advent of the regulations overhaul is a real shot-in-the-arm for a championship that over the past few years has looked to be slowly dying on its feet as spending escalated almost F1-style and priced out all but the wealthiest manufacturers.

There is increased TV interest, too, from ESPN, and Richards is optimistic that at long last, the WRC could be back on the road towards full health again. It is an opportunity to regain the glory days – and one, he asserts, that must be grabbed with both hands by all concerned.

“I personally believe that the future of the WRC is more in electronic media and web-based systems,” he opined. “I think you're going to see a lot more activity on that – it's free access, it's open to everybody and there are mountains and mountains of material there for people who are following the championship.

“The WRC needed a shake-up of the rules. Now it needs a bit of stability in the technical rules and a lack of questioning of where we're going to. I think we've got a stable set of rules and we've got sensible rules now – and you can see that from the investment that we're making, that other teams are making and the interest from new manufacturers as well.”

by Russell Atkins

http://www.crash.net/world+rally/news/1 ... _2013.html

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