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 Post subject: Re: Formula 1 season 2008 *REVIEWING*
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2008, 16:41  
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Well jury's out unless either of you can count all of the overtakes by everyone.. :p

In terms of quality, I particularly enjoyed Fernando's traction-style overtakes on Kovalainen in China and Brazil and on DC at Sepang, Raikkonen on Kubica around the outside of T1 at Bahrain and Hamilton on DC at Singapore. Hamilton must be the most superior late-braker because of Turkey on Massa, Singapore on DC, (not counting the 'Hock ones, because Massa and Piquet made it piz-easy for him and he had the best car).

Heidfeld was definately the double-overtaker and in my view, overtaker of the year. That double overatake on DC and 'Nando at Sepang was awesome, as was the double double overtake at Silverstone, final corner (first 'Nando and another forgotten victim, then on Kimi and Kovy). 'Nando himself put the Finns in their place in Aus, taking them both in a lovely dive under them both. Massa also took both Kovy and Barrichello at Canada.

joostlamers wrote:
I'm convinced Hamilton won the overtaking-cup


You would think that though, wouldn't you.. :p

I think Heidfeld should get it. He was in a much slower car at certain points of the season, and didn't necessarily race spectacularly, but put in some tip-top moves on people in crazy races.. Hence I think Heidfeld earns it.

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 Post subject: Re: Formula 1 season 2008 *REVIEWING*
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2008, 17:19  
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I agree Heidfeld was really good with his double moves. :D
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 Post subject: Re: Formula 1 season 2008 *REVIEWING*
PostPosted: 10 Nov 2008, 17:28  
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This is one of those quality or quantity debates.Do you want quality of overtake (Heidfeld) or quantity of overtake (Lewis).I personally think Lewis deserves it for his brazen attitude to overtaking,which can screw him up like in Japan,but elsewhere served him well.In Istanbul and Singapore not many would have pulled of his moves.
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 Post subject: Re: Formula 1 season 2008 *REVIEWING*
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2008, 10:05  
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swca92 wrote:
This is one of those quality or quantity debates.Do you want quality of overtake (Heidfeld) or quantity of overtake (Lewis).I personally think Lewis deserves it for his brazen attitude to overtaking,which can screw him up like in Japan,but elsewhere served him well.In Istanbul and Singapore not many would have pulled of his moves.

+1

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 Post subject: Re: Formula 1 season 2008 *REVIEWING*
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2008, 11:42  
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The whole thread is joostlamers biased for Lewis Hamilton :P
Its not worth the squeeze :P

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 Post subject: Re: Formula 1 season 2008 *REVIEWING*
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2008, 14:16  
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Schumfs wrote:
The whole thread is joostlamers biased for Lewis Hamilton :P
Its not worth the squeeze :P

I'm just making my point, and I think I'm right, so I'm defending my point, that's what a forum is about, isn't it :oh:

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 Post subject: Re: Formula 1 season 2008 *REVIEWING*
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2008, 14:30  
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Yawn.. Don't make this a stand-off. Both of you are entitled to non-member-offensive opinions.

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 Post subject: Re: Formula 1 season 2008 *REVIEWING*
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2008, 15:56  
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Lol guys what are you debating ( and almost arguing) over? Who the better overtaker is, Heidfeld or Hamilton? Come on, F1 is all about finishing and scoring points, of course overtaking is always nice to watch and a quite rare and precious ability these days, but if we look upon it from the "other" side, overtaking is only a result of beeing a) to slow in qualifying or b) making mistakes in the race and having to fight back. :) By doing the perfect job, overtaking would be unneccessary and impossible in theory, because you would be leading all the way. Like Lewis in China or Massa in Valencia.

But back to the topic: I think Lewis is far better at overtaking than Heidfeld, but they have different style: Lewis outbrakes people hard and Heidfeld waites for mistakes and uses them to his advantage.

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 Post subject: Re: Formula 1 season 2008 *REVIEWING*
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2008, 16:10  
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blizzard wrote:
Lol guys what are you debating ( and almost arguing) over? Who the better overtaker is, Heidfeld or Hamilton? Come on, F1 is all about finishing and scoring points, of course overtaking is always nice to watch and a quite rare and precious ability these days, but if we look upon it from the "other" side, overtaking is only a result of beeing a) to slow in qualifying or b) making mistakes in the race and having to fight back. :) By doing the perfect job, overtaking would be unneccessary and impossible in theory, because you would be leading all the way. Like Lewis in China or Massa in Valencia.

But back to the topic: I think Lewis is far better at overtaking than Heidfeld, but they have different style: Lewis outbrakes people hard and Heidfeld waites for mistakes and uses them to his advantage.


Aaah, but the perfect race from everyone would be very boring indeed. Overtaking is really one of the main points of the sport - it is one of the two or three vastly entertaining factors in F1, which is why we watch it. Strategy can be intruiging, but never half as good as a mouth-open overtake (Monty on Schumi @Spa 2004, Kimi on Fisi @Suzuka 2005, Alonso on Massa @Nurburgring 2007, Lewis on Massa @Turkey 2008). Therefore, overtaking is a valid distraction, and to say Heidfeld isn't as good as Lewis at overtaking is perhaps a subject worthy of debate. They definately have different styles. I can't think off the top of my head of one overtake that Lewis has done that required perfect traction and great car placement, whereas I can think of many where he's aced the braking zone. But I prefer the subtle art of overtaking, not the ballsy lunges, so I vote Heidfeld.

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 Post subject: Re: Formula 1 season 2008 *REVIEWING*
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2008, 18:05  
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I agree that most overtaking is because you have been stuck in the midfeild but in a faster car...but some moves for the lead are not like that (Kimi on Fisi, Japan 05). Both Kimi and Alonso had to overtake a lot of cars in that race...some more important than others, Alonso's on Micheal through 130R was amazing.

As for Lewis or Nick, I liked Nick's moves in Silverstone on Kimi and Alonso(?). Lewis just brakes late and sees what happens, if he gets it wrong then (in most cases) he's out of the race. Nick doesn't hope he will get past, he knows he will as he picks the perfect moment. To be honest you can't pick the best overtaker but you can choose the best overtake of the season and see who did it. My opinion is the best OVERTAKE of the season was Massa on Heikki and Lewis in Hungry.

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 Post subject: Re: Formula 1 season 2008 *REVIEWING*
PostPosted: 11 Nov 2008, 19:55  
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kimi and mika wrote:
I agree that most overtaking is because you have been stuck in the midfeild but in a faster car...but some moves for the lead are not like that (Kimi on Fisi, Japan 05). Both Kimi and Alonso had to overtake a lot of cars in that race...some more important than others, Alonso's on Micheal through 130R was amazing.

As for Lewis or Nick, I liked Nick's moves in Silverstone on Kimi and Alonso(?). Lewis just brakes late and sees what happens, if he gets it wrong then (in most cases) he's out of the race. Nick doesn't hope he will get past, he knows he will as he picks the perfect moment. To be honest you can't pick the best overtaker but you can choose the best overtake of the season and see who did it.


Perfect analysis :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Formula 1 season 2008 *REVIEWING*
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2008, 00:43  
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Schumfs wrote:
The whole thread is joostlamers biased for Lewis Hamilton :P
Its not worth the squeeze :P


I agree, Hamilton won the title but joost keeps pointing this or that.......just boring and annoying
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 Post subject: Re: Formula 1 season 2008 *REVIEWING*
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2008, 14:11  
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MP4/4#12 wrote:
Schumfs wrote:
The whole thread is joostlamers biased for Lewis Hamilton :P
Its not worth the squeeze :P


I agree, Hamilton won the title but joost keeps pointing this or that.......just boring and annoying



+1

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 Post subject: Re: Formula 1 season 2008 *REVIEWING*
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2008, 16:50  
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I don't think singling people out is a particularly good idea and not very nice.
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 Post subject: Re: Formula 1 season 2008 *REVIEWING*
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2008, 17:01  
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Fergie1 wrote:
I don't think singling people out is a particularly good idea and not very nice.


+1,leave Joost alone.He fights McLaren's corner like anyone who supports a sports team would.
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