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Who will win the 2008 Japanese Grand Prix
Poll ended at 12 Oct 2008, 17:06
Lewis Hamilton 22%  22%  [ 18 ]
Felipe Massa 37%  37%  [ 31 ]
Robert Kubica 7%  7%  [ 6 ]
Kimi Räikkönen 16%  16%  [ 13 ]
Nick Heidfeld 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Heikki Kovalainen 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Fernando Alonso 13%  13%  [ 11 ]
Sebastian Vettel 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Jarno Trulli 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Timo Glock 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Nico Rosberg 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Nelsinho Piquet 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Kazuki Nakajima 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 83
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1™ Fuji Television Japanese Grand Prix
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2008, 20:31  
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TwistedArmco wrote:
Fergie1 wrote:
If he didn't say things like that I would probably support him..


You probably did to an extent (say in 2005 and maybe 2006 if you didn't like Schumi) before darling little Lewis came along and the British press smeared Alonso because they have to feed the anger of the plebby, xenophobic idiots to sell their newspapers..


classic case of the pot calling the kettle black :p

i still like alonso. even if he hates lewis and probably dreams about the MTC going up in one big explosion, nothing will take away the fact that he's a great driver. i cannot give a damn less on what he says off the track. he wants to help Massa? fine with me. i'll just enjoy havin a dig at his supporters if Lewis wins after this :p (which i doubt, but anyways)

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1™ Fuji Television Japanese Grand Prix
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2008, 20:42  
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scermat wrote:
TwistedArmco wrote:
Fergie1 wrote:
If he didn't say things like that I would probably support him..


You probably did to an extent (say in 2005 and maybe 2006 if you didn't like Schumi) before darling little Lewis came along and the British press smeared Alonso because they have to feed the anger of the plebby, xenophobic idiots to sell their newspapers..


classic case of the pot calling the kettle black :p

i still like alonso. even if he hates lewis and probably dreams about the MTC going up in one big explosion, nothing will take away the fact that he's a great driver. i cannot give a damn less on what he says off the track. he wants to help Massa? fine with me. i'll just enjoy havin a dig at his supporters if Lewis wins after this :p (which i doubt, but anyways)

Thats how I should react as well. :p Instead of going off on one.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1™ Fuji Television Japanese Grand Prix
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2008, 20:48  
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scermat wrote:
TwistedArmco wrote:
You probably did to an extent (say in 2005 and maybe 2006 if you didn't like Schumi) before darling little Lewis came along and the British press smeared Alonso because they have to feed the anger of the plebby, xenophobic idiots to sell their newspapers..


classic case of the pot calling the kettle black :p


In which bit? :n Go on, it'll be fun, I'm going to try and argue my way out of this one.. :p

scermat wrote:
i still like alonso. even if he hates lewis and probably dreams about the MTC going up in one big explosion, nothing will take away the fact that he's a great driver. i cannot give a damn less on what he says off the track. he wants to help Massa? fine with me. i'll just enjoy havin a dig at his supporters if Lewis wins after this :p (which i doubt, but anyways


Lewis will almost definately win. Ferrari are good at losing their heads at just the wrong moment this season. Frankly, I doubt that Alonso will do much, and on a normal Sunday I doubt he'll even be on the same patch of tarmac as Lewis. I hope he doesn't make any deliberate contact with Lewis, but I could handle most other things. I think he was just saying that though as more of a media war type thing, maybe psyche Lewis and make him cautious/edgy if he's on the same patch of tarmac as him.. ''hmm''

Fergie1 wrote:
Thats how I should react as well. Instead of going off on one.


Indeed :p .. It will improve with age, matey..

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1™ Fuji Television Japanese Grand Prix
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2008, 20:52  
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as if i give a damn about what drivers say off the track!! theyre under the spotlight. whatever they do, they're going to be criticised for it and its going to be twisted and turned into anything that sells. some (well this defines a very particular group) of those who cry about Hamilton being arrogant and who used to whiiiiiiiiiiiiiine about Alonso's arrogance back in 06 are now saying how cool he is for saying it the way he feels. but lewis is still an arrogant selfish bastard for saying it the way he feels. lol!

both massa and lewis deserve the championship anyway. they were the only 2 who were right on the limit and didnt hesitate to risk when needed. even if i think Massa got handed 8 points he didnt deserve he still worked better than someone like kimi and shut my mouth up when i used to say he'd be c**p without TC. yeah okay. both messed up this season. but they only messed up cause they did something called racing as opposed to something called driving.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1™ Fuji Television Japanese Grand Prix
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2008, 21:02  
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TwistedArmco wrote:
scermat wrote:
TwistedArmco wrote:
You probably did to an extent (say in 2005 and maybe 2006 if you didn't like Schumi) before darling little Lewis came along and the British press smeared Alonso because they have to feed the anger of the plebby, xenophobic idiots to sell their newspapers..


classic case of the pot calling the kettle black :p


In which bit? :n Go on, it'll be fun, I'm going to try and argue my way out of this one.. :p


nah! we'll leave it for some other time. but honestly. do try to learn italian and watch a race on RAI. you'll be amazed at how relatively unbiased James Allen sounds compared to them. they said that Alonso did a superb drive during the singapore race and shows why he really is a deserving 2 time world champion. you wouldnt hear that coming out of the italians.

TwistedArmco wrote:
scermat wrote:
i still like alonso. even if he hates lewis and probably dreams about the MTC going up in one big explosion, nothing will take away the fact that he's a great driver. i cannot give a damn less on what he says off the track. he wants to help Massa? fine with me. i'll just enjoy havin a dig at his supporters if Lewis wins after this :p (which i doubt, but anyways


Lewis will almost definately win. Ferrari are good at losing their heads at just the wrong moment this season. Frankly, I doubt that Alonso will do much, and on a normal Sunday I doubt he'll even be on the same patch of tarmac as Lewis. I hope he doesn't make any deliberate contact with Lewis, but I could handle most other things. I think he was just saying that though as more of a media war type thing, maybe psyche Lewis and make him cautious/edgy if he's on the same patch of tarmac as him.. ''hmm''


i have serious doubts about lewis winning. his lack of experience (he's disadvantaged compared to massa there) but also the bad luck i bring with myself when i support someone :p seriously, i dont see Lewis winning it. he'll probably just still go flat out till the last lap in brazil. but that's why i like him. he's a racer. having said that Massa this year doesnt seem to be any less so kudos to him if he does.

As for Alonso, i dont see a professional like him doing such a thing. but even if he does, its part of racing. (now if he really does please ignore the comments i say right then and come read this :D ) He probably said it to please the Spanish Press. they simply LOVE indulging in anything anti-lewis. same reason why Lewis says what he says to the British media and Massa to the italians i guess. same thing in any sport you'll see though. not gonna dislike them or call them arrogant for sayin it the way they feel though.

TwistedArmco wrote:
Fergie1 wrote:
Thats how I should react as well. Instead of going off on one.


Indeed :p .. It will improve with age, matey..


i say a lot of stupid things right after the race. but in hindsight i feel im quite impartial. even if several things lately are makign me less of a fan of the sport but more of a fan of the team. but i still have hope that this will be fixed. (perhaps jean todt replacing Max Moseley will do it! )

i still like Kimi as a driver from his McLaren days, i have bucket loads of respect towards Alonso for doing what he did with Renault, and Massa has earned tons of respect for his racer attitude this year from me. tbh most of the times i find that im more annoyed with the irrational ferrari fanboys rather than ferrari themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1™ Fuji Television Japanese Grand Prix
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2008, 21:16  
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scermat wrote:
as if i give a damn about what drivers say off the track!! theyre under the spotlight. whatever they do, they're going to be criticised for it and its going to be twisted and turned into anything that sells. some (well this defines a very particular group) of those who cry about Hamilton being arrogant and who used to whiiiiiiiiiiiiiine about Alonso's arrogance back in 06 are now saying how cool he is for saying it the way he feels. but lewis is still an arrogant selfish bastard for saying it the way he feels. lol!

both massa and lewis deserve the championship anyway. they were the only 2 who were right on the limit and didnt hesitate to risk when needed. even if i think Massa got handed 8 points he didnt deserve he still worked better than someone like kimi and shut my mouth up when i used to say he'd be c**p without TC. yeah okay. both messed up this season. but they only messed up cause they did something called racing as opposed to something called driving.


Well, yes that is partially my hate of English things, that the Sun and the Mail try to convince me I should put my heart and soul and passion into simply because I'm from the same portion of a god-forsaken turd of an island in a cold sea, surrounded by more interesting and culturally superior Latin and Germanic neighbours - therefore I hate Macca and dislike Lewis. But there are ways and ways of being arrogant.

Once again, this stems from my Latin/English culture internal struggle, but Lewis does the quintessentially British thing of trying to act like the benevolent one, trying to be a goody-goody, while at the same time trying to act all laddy and trying to appeal to the lager louts, all this hiding a streak of percieved self-righteousness, which with his pace he probably deserves to have, with his sordid family-values like relationship with another Mr. Clean (RD) and his team.

Alonso does the Latin swagger, pointedly denies a lot of things, and gets stroppy and defensive, like I would. He doesn't try to be a goody-goody, like Lewis, and is a bit of a lone-wolf in human relations. I don't know how he tries to appeal to the Spanish working classes (which I feel sure he does) so I can't judge on that, but he also has a streak of self-righteousness and skill-arrogance. Mind you, he is a double WC, so it's like Hamilton. Skill backs up arrogance.

I still cringe when either is overly arrogant or unreasonable (happens all the time), but with Fernando, I can see the connection with me, whereas Lewis does it Englishly, and I just get angry when commentators fawn over him.

Quote:
..are now saying how cool he is for saying it the way he feels. but lewis is still an arrogant selfish bastard for saying it the way he feels..


Re: Arrogance, I hate PR speak. Given that they're are going to be arrogant all the time, the very least they could do is be less PR-able about it. What Fernando said in the case in point was not PR-able, it was kinda lairy and snide. What Lewis says is generally very PR-able even if he is saying his feelings. Although I did like "I could do with a beer.."

EDIT:Sorry mate, I posted this before reading your second post.. So I may be talking irrelevantly.. :)

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1™ Fuji Television Japanese Grand Prix
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2008, 21:26  
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i completely agree. except i dont mind either the engilsh or the latin way of things. but that's just a matter of opinion i guess. what does it to me is my personal impression. i dislike someone like kubica for this very reason. he may look and seem humble on tv. but deep down i feel as if he's the biggest ass in the paddock based on the 1 minute i spent next to him. i know its unfair but that's the impression i got of him and nothing will change that. Alonso, Hamilton, Nico etc... they were all super nice and i felt honored to have met them!

something i actually notice though is that while tabloids like those have a feast with some PR arrogance lewis says, theyre always the first to stir up rumors about his private life. thaaaaat is what i annoys me. and i guess it shows that all they wanna do is sell. you dont see that happening in Spain or Italy very often though! i guess its the way things work in england. they're either overly proud of what they have but they're the first to go invent trash about it!

im also pretty darn sure that someone who goes to edit photos of war with very strong and serious repercussions wouldn't mind twisting and turning a quote here or there. so i have a hard time believing things some papers say sometimes.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1™ Fuji Television Japanese Grand Prix
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2008, 21:31  
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scermat wrote:
i completely agree. except i dont mind either the engilsh or the latin way of things. but that's just a matter of opinion i guess. what does it to me is my personal impression. i dislike someone like kubica for this very reason. he may look and seem humble on tv. but deep down i feel as if he's the biggest ass in the paddock based on the 1 minute i spent next to him. i know its unfair but that's the impression i got of him and nothing will change that. Alonso, Hamilton, Nico etc... they were all super nice and i felt honored to have met them!

something i actually notice though is that while tabloids like those have a feast with some PR arrogance lewis says, theyre always the first to stir up rumors about his private life. thaaaaat is what i annoys me. and i guess it shows that all they wanna do is sell. you dont see that happening in Spain or Italy very often though! i guess its the way things work in england. they're either overly proud of what they have but they're the first to go invent trash about it!


Yeah, it's all perception. I've never met any of them!

I don't like Lewis, and therefore I hate seeing Lewis backed up by the tabloids in the Ferrari conspiracy c**p, but then I also find it stupid when he does something they can't explain away, and they turn on him. That is the nature of tabloids, which is why I distrust your average British Lewis Hamilton fan. Because they read tabloids and are full of jingoism, and rubbish, and are completely unreasonable.

scermat wrote:
im also pretty darn sure that someone who goes to edit photos of war with very strong and serious repercussions wouldn't mind twisting and turning a quote here or there. so i have a hard time believing things sometimes.


I don't get the reference in that last bit..

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1™ Fuji Television Japanese Grand Prix
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2008, 21:46  
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Completely agree mate and its a shame things have to go that way!

anyway regards the last bit wasnt there some sort of tabloid (possibly more than 1) that photoshopped c**p about iraq war and showing soldiers doing horrible things that they didnt really do? i may have dreamt this of course but i think someone even got fired for it (wasnt it pierce morgan, the guy who got punched by Jeremy Clarkson for printing c**p about him?)

my point here being that if they're willing to go that far, they're probably more than willing to twist and turn things people say just so they can sell and make a hit.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1™ Fuji Television Japanese Grand Prix
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2008, 21:50  
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Oh yeah! It was about a soldier urinating on someone's face, so Private Eye (a spoof magazine) phtoshopped Piers Morgan's face onto the original photoshopped picture. :)

But in all seriousness, yes absolutely, tabloids make me sick, and are capable of anything. I know exactly what you mean.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1™ Fuji Television Japanese Grand Prix
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2008, 09:17  
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AzShadow wrote:
This is somewhat misleading IMO as many of Alonso's victories from lower start positions came after others encountered reliability problems (especially McLaren in 2005). Of course they are his wins, but most of them not really because of his skill or anything.


I don't understand why you say that. Ferrari has got reliability problems: Hungary, Singapur ... Then, doesn't Hamilton deserve the Championship?

Alonso cares for the cars he drives. Perhaps, Raikonnen didn't care in this matter.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1™ Fuji Television Japanese Grand Prix
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2008, 09:52  
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iceman1 wrote:
Zack wrote:
Spoiler:
raikkonen4ever wrote:
@Zack : Nice avatar :)
iceman1 wrote:
Nice av zack :p
thanks :)

Alonso supporting Massa ''hmm'' ... probably that will be limited to offtrack.Its difficult to understand the main reason behind this ..!Alonsoo! :p

F2008 have few added bits to solve Kimi's problem & particularly to address Tyre Temperature issues.
http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/ ... 2/598.html

Main Reason : Ferrari i'm gonna help your driver :p http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=m8rv23q9sZM

:roll:: at bit late to fix the problem :pout:



iceman what do you want to tell us with that?

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1™ Fuji Television Japanese Grand Prix
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2008, 12:34  
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Alonso wanted to go to Ferrari next year so....Alonso help Massa to get title.....Montezemolo happy.......Alonso rewarded with a Ferrari seat next year......too late, both drivers already signed for next season. I think that`s it blizzard !
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1™ Fuji Television Japanese Grand Prix
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2008, 14:51  
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MP4/4#12 wrote:
Alonso wanted to go to Ferrari next year so....Alonso help Massa to get title.....Montezemolo happy.......Alonso rewarded with a Ferrari seat next year......too late, both drivers already signed for next season. I think that`s it blizzard !



Ok thx for the info MP4/#12, but I don´t think the Fontana video fits in.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1™ Fuji Television Japanese Grand Prix
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2008, 15:00  
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blizzard wrote:
MP4/4#12 wrote:
Alonso wanted to go to Ferrari next year so....Alonso help Massa to get title.....Montezemolo happy.......Alonso rewarded with a Ferrari seat next year......too late, both drivers already signed for next season. I think that`s it blizzard !


Ok thx for the info MP4/#12, but I don´t think the Fontana video fits in.


Well, hypothetically, if Alonso were to do something to Hamilton like that which Fontana did to Villeneuve, then the video would be fitting. It is only a hypothetical situation, but it fits in with my understanding and perception of Alonso's comments.

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