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Who will win the 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix ?
Poll ended at 07 Sep 2008, 15:34
Lewis Hamilton 25%  25%  [ 22 ]
Felipe Massa 33%  33%  [ 29 ]
Kimi Räikkönen 31%  31%  [ 27 ]
Robert Kubica 6%  6%  [ 5 ]
Heikki Kovalainen 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Nick Heidfeld 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Jarno Trulli 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Fernando Alonso 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Mark Webber 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Timo Glock 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 87
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:33  
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scermat wrote:
F1Tracer wrote:
Firstly i hated Hamilton because he came through the GP2 straight forward to McLaren, and not just like other f1 drivers that started from smaller teams to earn experience (Alonso - Minardi, Kimi - Sauber, Massa - Sauber, M. Schumacher - Jordan ..........), no experience at all on F1 and through his father he is a mclaren driver.


that's called jelousy :p

you clearly havent followed lewis before GP2. i have. he's not in McLaren cause of his dad. he's in McLaren cause he was flippin good in karting and used to consistently beat older drivers. particularly in the wet. and when he's caught on the back foot. he was mature enough to go in a big team alread. that's unlike Massa, Alonso and the others.

there are very few drivers who had it easy for them with getting into F1. and they make it there cause of the money and dad being a former race driver (anthony wasn't) not talent. and they usually end up sucking big time. (see: Nelsinho Piquet, or Nakajima)

unlike most other drivers, Lewis was good enough to get the attention of McLaren and work together from early on. so by the time he got into GP2 he was ready for F1. Clearly missing the championship by 1 point and consistently fighting for position with his world champion team mate is proof enough of that (as opposed to running worse consistently than him like piquet is doing). see unlike the new guys, Hamilton had been preparing for F1 for around 6 years. there were drivers in great teams that failed on a consistant basis so your theory that lewis is only up there solely cause he had a good car fails.

and i hate to break it to you, but Mr.Hamilton is not going to be the Last. next up is Oliver Rowland. ever seen him kart? i have. he's good. you're gonna love "hating" him in 10-15 years :O

Oh and just for clarification. a drive through at SPA costs 17.5 seconds (see FIA released race documents for heikkis drive through). in those conditions (where they werent really going flat out anywhere) a drive through wouldn't have cost him more than 10s. pit lane there is quite short and in those conditions cars couldn't carry a lot of speed. but rules are rules and 25 second penalty is what had to be applied so in that sense its fair enough.


i didn't spoke for his talent, no doubt for that, but i spoke that as a rookie driver his place was at spyker or even redbull for the start, even Michael Schumacher started for the small team Jordan that now is Force India as a replacement driver at spa.

He is not a super star driver from his second year, give to Vettel (hopefully not) the MP4-24 and tomorrow it's a race winner and champion challeger.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:34  
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F1Tracer wrote:
and if you count the bad weather conditions then its about 35 seconds.

and don't forget that Kimi crashed because Lewis pissed off Kimi and he lost he's concetration to the race in addition to the rain ........


why werent they all doing 30second laps then? please explain your math cause i cant understand one single bit of it.

when kimi crashed he was in the lead. that's no excuse. and if that's the case stop calling him the Iceman cause clearly he isn't. djeez!

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:37  
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scermat wrote:
shail69 wrote:
he did get an advantage by cutting the chicane. do you think that he would have been able to maintain the gap by not cutting the chicane. he could challenge kimi because he cut the chicane, he would not have been able to challenge kimi of he did not cut the chicane because he would have to brake hard and that would lose him time.
A penalty was deserved and if it would have been a race penalty, it would be ten seconds stop and go and that is even more than 25 seconds.


no, he could challenge kimi because kimi was c**p under breaking for the bus stop and la source.

oh so now it was going to be a 10 second stop and go eh? based on what criteria? :oh: that would've been mroe rediculous. we havent seen one of those in years.


well you are trying to defend lewis like you are him. I just want to answer a question. If lewis had not cut the chicane then would he be able to be be less than a second behind kimi like he was?

Well the answer is definitely no, but if you are a blind supporter of lewis you say yes. But this is the end, it has happened before and will happen again. Thats the end ( full stop).


Last edited by shailf1 on 08 Sep 2008, 13:39, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:38  
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ok why we are discussing about the drive through? - there wasn't any time to receive and also to execute the penalty!!!

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:39  
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F1Tracer wrote:
scermat wrote:
F1Tracer wrote:
Firstly i hated Hamilton because he came through the GP2 straight forward to McLaren, and not just like other f1 drivers that started from smaller teams to earn experience (Alonso - Minardi, Kimi - Sauber, Massa - Sauber, M. Schumacher - Jordan ..........), no experience at all on F1 and through his father he is a mclaren driver.


that's called jelousy :p

you clearly havent followed lewis before GP2. i have. he's not in McLaren cause of his dad. he's in McLaren cause he was flippin good in karting and used to consistently beat older drivers. particularly in the wet. and when he's caught on the back foot. he was mature enough to go in a big team alread. that's unlike Massa, Alonso and the others.

there are very few drivers who had it easy for them with getting into F1. and they make it there cause of the money and dad being a former race driver (anthony wasn't) not talent. and they usually end up sucking big time. (see: Nelsinho Piquet, or Nakajima)

unlike most other drivers, Lewis was good enough to get the attention of McLaren and work together from early on. so by the time he got into GP2 he was ready for F1. Clearly missing the championship by 1 point and consistently fighting for position with his world champion team mate is proof enough of that (as opposed to running worse consistently than him like piquet is doing). see unlike the new guys, Hamilton had been preparing for F1 for around 6 years. there were drivers in great teams that failed on a consistant basis so your theory that lewis is only up there solely cause he had a good car fails.

and i hate to break it to you, but Mr.Hamilton is not going to be the Last. next up is Oliver Rowland. ever seen him kart? i have. he's good. you're gonna love "hating" him in 10-15 years :O

Oh and just for clarification. a drive through at SPA costs 17.5 seconds (see FIA released race documents for heikkis drive through). in those conditions (where they werent really going flat out anywhere) a drive through wouldn't have cost him more than 10s. pit lane there is quite short and in those conditions cars couldn't carry a lot of speed. but rules are rules and 25 second penalty is what had to be applied so in that sense its fair enough.


i didn't spoke for his talent, no doubt for that, but i spoke that as a rookie driver his place was at spyker or even redbull for the start, even Michael Schumacher started for the small team Jordan that now is Force India as a replacement driver at spa.

He is not a super star driver from his second year, give to Vettel (hopefully not) the MP4-24 and tomorrow it's a race winner and champion challeger.


i think what you need to understand is that Michael Schumacher is not GOD and he doesnt set rules for everyone else. Lewis should have gone nowhere but McLaren. he was capable enough of handling that job and he gave McLaren what they wanted and McLaren gave him what he needed. simple results are there for everyone to see. just because he's new doesnt mean he has to go with a c**p team. he didn't and he challenged for the championship cause he was good enough to be there.

so he's not a super star driver from his second year yet he's beaten super star drivers like Alonso and Kimi. so what does that make him? rookie who beats super star drivers? :huh:

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:42  
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F1Tracer wrote:
if Lewis taken the chicane normally and especially 2 labs before the end, Kimi as a good experienced driver he could put the head down and finish the race without any problems, but Lewis pissed off the Finn, and from all over the globe are discussing that incident now :)


the facts are real, race finished Flag:## Massa is the winner, 2 points left !!!

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:45  
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scermat wrote:
F1Tracer wrote:
scermat wrote:
F1Tracer wrote:
Firstly i hated Hamilton because he came through the GP2 straight forward to McLaren, and not just like other f1 drivers that started from smaller teams to earn experience (Alonso - Minardi, Kimi - Sauber, Massa - Sauber, M. Schumacher - Jordan ..........), no experience at all on F1 and through his father he is a mclaren driver.


that's called jelousy :p

you clearly havent followed lewis before GP2. i have. he's not in McLaren cause of his dad. he's in McLaren cause he was flippin good in karting and used to consistently beat older drivers. particularly in the wet. and when he's caught on the back foot. he was mature enough to go in a big team alread. that's unlike Massa, Alonso and the others.

there are very few drivers who had it easy for them with getting into F1. and they make it there cause of the money and dad being a former race driver (anthony wasn't) not talent. and they usually end up sucking big time. (see: Nelsinho Piquet, or Nakajima)

unlike most other drivers, Lewis was good enough to get the attention of McLaren and work together from early on. so by the time he got into GP2 he was ready for F1. Clearly missing the championship by 1 point and consistently fighting for position with his world champion team mate is proof enough of that (as opposed to running worse consistently than him like piquet is doing). see unlike the new guys, Hamilton had been preparing for F1 for around 6 years. there were drivers in great teams that failed on a consistant basis so your theory that lewis is only up there solely cause he had a good car fails.

and i hate to break it to you, but Mr.Hamilton is not going to be the Last. next up is Oliver Rowland. ever seen him kart? i have. he's good. you're gonna love "hating" him in 10-15 years :O

Oh and just for clarification. a drive through at SPA costs 17.5 seconds (see FIA released race documents for heikkis drive through). in those conditions (where they werent really going flat out anywhere) a drive through wouldn't have cost him more than 10s. pit lane there is quite short and in those conditions cars couldn't carry a lot of speed. but rules are rules and 25 second penalty is what had to be applied so in that sense its fair enough.


i didn't spoke for his talent, no doubt for that, but i spoke that as a rookie driver his place was at spyker or even redbull for the start, even Michael Schumacher started for the small team Jordan that now is Force India as a replacement driver at spa.

He is not a super star driver from his second year, give to Vettel (hopefully not) the MP4-24 and tomorrow it's a race winner and champion challeger.


i think what you need to understand is that Michael Schumacher is not GOD and he doesnt set rules for everyone else. Lewis should have gone nowhere but McLaren. he was capable enough of handling that job and he gave McLaren what they wanted and McLaren gave him what he needed. simple results are there for everyone to see. just because he's new doesnt mean he has to go with a c**p team. he didn't and he challenged for the championship cause he was good enough to be there.

so he's not a super star driver from his second year yet he's beaten super star drivers like Alonso and Kimi. so what does that make him? rookie who beats super star drivers? :huh:


Give Vettel or Bourdais the McLaren of Lewis and vise versa, then we have two new Lewis for the new champions development project !!!

LOL

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:45  
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Edit: Double post. sorry

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Last edited by scermat on 08 Sep 2008, 13:50, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:45  
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shail69 wrote:
scermat wrote:
shail69 wrote:
he did get an advantage by cutting the chicane. do you think that he would have been able to maintain the gap by not cutting the chicane. he could challenge kimi because he cut the chicane, he would not have been able to challenge kimi of he did not cut the chicane because he would have to brake hard and that would lose him time.
A penalty was deserved and if it would have been a race penalty, it would be ten seconds stop and go and that is even more than 25 seconds.


no, he could challenge kimi because kimi was c**p under breaking for the bus stop and la source.

oh so now it was going to be a 10 second stop and go eh? based on what criteria? :oh: that would've been mroe rediculous. we havent seen one of those in years.


well you are trying to defend lewis like you are him. I just want to answer a question. If lewis had not cut the chicane then would he be able to be be less than a second behind kimi like he was?

Well the answer is definitely no, but if you are a blind supporter of lewis you say yes. But this is the end, it has happened before and will happen again. Thats the end ( full stop).


So are people like Niki Lauda, and respected Jurnos (no, not ITV morons). how about Jean Alesi? former ferrari driver... that convince you enough? NO? Cesare Fiorio? Former Ferrari Director? well i give up then! it must be just me and my fanboyism (well Niki, Jean and Cesare must be hamilton fanboys then) as opposed to some of the flawless unbiased arguments being presented here!?

PS the answer is definitely no because its the only answer you can have. do you even know who was ahead on the entry of Bus Stop chichane? (Hint: it wasn't the red car) too many flaws in your argument. gap was less than 1 second. etc etc.. Charlie Whiting (who knows more than i do on F1) told McLaren that they let him past fairly. apparently he's a hamilton fanboy. :p

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Last edited by scermat on 08 Sep 2008, 13:49, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:47  
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F1Tracer wrote:
ok why we are discussing about the drive through? - there wasn't any time to receive and also to execute the penalty!!!


erm because someone brought out the fact (in a world governed by different physics) that a drive through penalty would have cost him more than 25 seconds when in the world i live in it wouldn't have. i hate arguments backed up by incorrect facts so i apologise if i should have STFU and let you talk about out incorrect "Facts" (like the stewards did after all) but didn't.

apologies again

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:52  
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scermat wrote:
F1Tracer wrote:
ok why we are discussing about the drive through? - there wasn't any time to receive and also to execute the penalty!!!


erm because someone brought out the fact (in a world governed by different physics) that a drive through penalty would have cost him more than 25 seconds when in the world i live in it wouldn't have. i hate arguments backed up by incorrect facts so i apologise if i should have STFU and let you talk about out incorrect "Facts" (like the stewards did after all) but didn't.

apologies again

Why? its not possible ? ...lot of facts here are self invented :p

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:53  
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scermat wrote:
F1Tracer wrote:
ok why we are discussing about the drive through? - there wasn't any time to receive and also to execute the penalty!!!


erm because someone brought out the fact (in a world governed by different physics) that a drive through penalty would have cost him more than 25 seconds when in the world i live in it wouldn't have. i hate arguments backed up by incorrect facts so i apologise if i should have STFU and let you talk about out incorrect "Facts" (like the stewards did after all) but didn't.

apologies again


still no answer on:

Quote:
Give Vettel or Bourdais the McLaren of Lewis and vise versa, then we have two new Lewis for the new champions development project !!!


LOL

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:56  
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LAWL LAWL LAWL. i have no answer. i'm pwned.

Let's see what age they all are. oh damn!

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 14:11  
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F1Tracer wrote:
Yes i agree, thats why i wrote that the stuarts didn't have time for the drive-through penalty decision, and they took it for post race penalties



Point of clarification:

Stuarts - members of a the Stuart dynasty, rulers of Scotland from 1371 to 1707 and England from 1603 to 1701.

Stewards - members of office, specifically used in Formula One to make decisions regarding penalties and infringements.



(Sorry, matey, but I do History, and I studied the Stuarts. Trust me, if you put the Stuarts in a room and made them decide things, they'd hash it up even more.. :p )

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 14:11  
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scermat wrote:
shail69 wrote:
scermat wrote:
shail69 wrote:
he did get an advantage by cutting the chicane. do you think that he would have been able to maintain the gap by not cutting the chicane. he could challenge kimi because he cut the chicane, he would not have been able to challenge kimi of he did not cut the chicane because he would have to brake hard and that would lose him time.
A penalty was deserved and if it would have been a race penalty, it would be ten seconds stop and go and that is even more than 25 seconds.


no, he could challenge kimi because kimi was c**p under breaking for the bus stop and la source.

oh so now it was going to be a 10 second stop and go eh? based on what criteria? :oh: that would've been mroe rediculous. we havent seen one of those in years.


well you are trying to defend lewis like you are him. I just want to answer a question. If lewis had not cut the chicane then would he be able to be be less than a second behind kimi like he was?

Well the answer is definitely no, but if you are a blind supporter of lewis you say yes. But this is the end, it has happened before and will happen again. Thats the end ( full stop).


So are people like Niki Lauda, and respected Jurnos (no, not ITV morons). how about Jean Alesi? former ferrari driver... that convince you enough? NO? Cesare Fiorio? Former Ferrari Director? well i give up then! it must be just me and my fanboyism (well Niki, Jean and Cesare must be hamilton fanboys then) as opposed to some of the flawless unbiased arguments being presented here!?

PS the answer is definitely no because its the only answer you can have. do you even know who was ahead on the entry of Bus Stop chichane? (Hint: it wasn't the red car) too many flaws in your argument. gap was less than 1 second. etc etc.. Charlie Whiting (who knows more than i do on F1) told McLaren that they let him past fairly. apparently he's a hamilton fanboy. :p


You know what all the people who you mentioned earlier said that max mosely should quit, i dont think the say it now. People's opinion can change.

lewis was in front but you cannot simply have a race to the corner and if you reach there in front you cannot expect the other driver to leave the way just because you are few cm ahead. kimi had the line.
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