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Who will win the 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix ?
Poll ended at 07 Sep 2008, 15:34
Lewis Hamilton 25%  25%  [ 22 ]
Felipe Massa 33%  33%  [ 29 ]
Kimi Räikkönen 31%  31%  [ 27 ]
Robert Kubica 6%  6%  [ 5 ]
Heikki Kovalainen 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Nick Heidfeld 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Jarno Trulli 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Fernando Alonso 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Mark Webber 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Timo Glock 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 87
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 12:16  
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joostlamers wrote:
At this very moment the radio plays Linkin Park - In the End
He sings this:
"I tried so hard
And got so far
But in the end
It doesn't even matter"
Tears in my eyes... It's Hamiltons race of yesterday, in a few words...

Really???....after talking so much about penalty now iam aslo getting sympathized to Hamliton.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 12:34  
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joostlamers wrote:
At this very moment the radio plays Linkin Park - In the End
He sings this:
"I tried so hard
And got so far
But in the end
It doesn't even matter"
Tears in my eyes... It's Hamiltons race of yesterday, in a few words...

well it mattered otherwise he would have ended up behind alonso, bourdais, vettel group because of that penalty
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 12:36  
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Firstly i hated Hamilton because he came through the GP2 straight forward to McLaren, and not just like other f1 drivers that started from smaller teams to earn experience (Alonso - Minardi, Kimi - Sauber, Massa - Sauber, M. Schumacher - Jordan ..........), no experience at all on F1 and through his father he is a mclaren driver.

After his 1st year i realize that he is a good driver but he is far away from a mature driver, he have to understand how to fight fair and not though illegal tricks, he have to learn how to loose and not just jumping and smiling on the pontiums.

Go Felipe, go ........

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 12:36  
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F1Tracer wrote:
MrPonx wrote:
lealjaime wrote:


3. FIA use the same criteria and aplied a 25 secs penalty like a drive trought on the race. hamilton has
penalty again the same on diferent race ( by the way remember 1997 shumacher was cut by a
penalty and no williams international asistence)





but if lewis got a drive through under those conditions he would've needed more than 25seconds.. so he was actually lucky to get only 25!!

I just wish Kimi has finished the race.. it's so difficult to swallow...


:thumbsup:

and also it was at the verry end of the race, no chance for the stuarts to decide the penalty


A drive-through cannot be appealed, but only because it has to be served in the race. A post-race penalty can be appealed because there is no regulation against appealing any penalty and removing a post-race penalty does not require time travel to accomplish.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 12:45  
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iceman1 wrote:
F1Tracer wrote:
MrPonx wrote:
lealjaime wrote:


3. FIA use the same criteria and aplied a 25 secs penalty like a drive trought on the race. hamilton has
penalty again the same on diferent race ( by the way remember 1997 shumacher was cut by a
penalty and no williams international asistence)





but if lewis got a drive through under those conditions he would've needed more than 25seconds.. so he was actually lucky to get only 25!!

I just wish Kimi has finished the race.. it's so difficult to swallow...


:thumbsup:

and also it was at the verry end of the race, no chance for the stuarts to decide the penalty


A drive-through cannot be appealed, but only because it has to be served in the race. A post-race penalty can be appealed because there is no regulation against appealing any penalty and removing a post-race penalty does not require time travel to accomplish.


yes i agree, thats why i wrote that the stuarts didn't have time for the drive-through penalty decision, and they took it for post race penalties

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 12:53  
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he did get an advantage by cutting the chicane. do you think that he would have been able to maintain the gap by not cutting the chicane. he could challenge kimi because he cut the chicane, he would not have been able to challenge kimi of he did not cut the chicane because he would have to brake hard and that would lose him time.
A penalty was deserved and if it would have been a race penalty, it would be ten seconds stop and go and that is even more than 25 seconds.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:10  
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and if you count the bad weather conditions then its about 35 seconds.

and don't forget that Kimi crashed because Lewis pissed off Kimi and he lost he's concetration to the race in addition to the rain ........

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:13  
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All in all, the move by Lewis did not gain him absolutely any advantage. That is, had he stayed behind Kimi in La Source, we would have watched pretty much the same race. Don't forget that Kimi got past him later in the round again.

The only driver getting an unfair advantage is Felipe Massa. Period.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:14  
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also, drivers that get lose concentration for any reason on track and get emotional should stay in their home. this is no place for little children. why dont we give raikkonen a lolipop and 10 points for consolation?
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:16  
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F1Tracer wrote:
Firstly i hated Hamilton because he came through the GP2 straight forward to McLaren, and not just like other f1 drivers that started from smaller teams to earn experience (Alonso - Minardi, Kimi - Sauber, Massa - Sauber, M. Schumacher - Jordan ..........), no experience at all on F1 and through his father he is a mclaren driver.


that's called jelousy :p

you clearly havent followed lewis before GP2. i have. he's not in McLaren cause of his dad. he's in McLaren cause he was flippin good in karting and used to consistently beat older drivers. particularly in the wet. and when he's caught on the back foot. he was mature enough to go in a big team alread. that's unlike Massa, Alonso and the others.

there are very few drivers who had it easy for them with getting into F1. and they make it there cause of the money and dad being a former race driver (anthony wasn't) not talent. and they usually end up sucking big time. (see: Nelsinho Piquet, or Nakajima)

unlike most other drivers, Lewis was good enough to get the attention of McLaren and work together from early on. so by the time he got into GP2 he was ready for F1. Clearly missing the championship by 1 point and consistently fighting for position with his world champion team mate is proof enough of that (as opposed to running worse consistently than him like piquet is doing). see unlike the new guys, Hamilton had been preparing for F1 for around 6 years. there were drivers in great teams that failed on a consistant basis so your theory that lewis is only up there solely cause he had a good car fails.

and i hate to break it to you, but Mr.Hamilton is not going to be the Last. next up is Oliver Rowland. ever seen him kart? i have. he's good. you're gonna love "hating" him in 10-15 years :O

Oh and just for clarification. a drive through at SPA costs 17.5 seconds (see FIA released race documents for heikkis drive through). in those conditions (where they werent really going flat out anywhere) a drive through wouldn't have cost him more than 10s. pit lane there is quite short and in those conditions cars couldn't carry a lot of speed. but rules are rules and 25 second penalty is what had to be applied so in that sense its fair enough.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:18  
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shail69 wrote:
he did get an advantage by cutting the chicane. do you think that he would have been able to maintain the gap by not cutting the chicane. he could challenge kimi because he cut the chicane, he would not have been able to challenge kimi of he did not cut the chicane because he would have to brake hard and that would lose him time.
A penalty was deserved and if it would have been a race penalty, it would be ten seconds stop and go and that is even more than 25 seconds.


no, he could challenge kimi because kimi was c**p under breaking for the bus stop and la source.

oh so now it was going to be a 10 second stop and go eh? based on what criteria? :oh: that would've been mroe rediculous. we havent seen one of those in years.

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Last edited by scermat on 08 Sep 2008, 13:19, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:19  
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if Lewis taken the chicane normally and especially 2 labs before the end, Kimi as a good experienced driver he could put the head down and finish the race without any problems, but Lewis pissed off the Finn, and from all over the globe are discussing that incident now :)

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:20  
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It would very interesting to do some statistics regarding the penalties by FIA.
It seems to me that since 2000:

Lewis Hamilton
Heikki Kovalainen
Juan Pablo Montoya
Fernando Alonso

all have already more penalties individually ALREADY that Michael Schumacher, Felippe Massa and Rubens Barrichello, even if Lewis for example has raced only a small fraction of races compared to MS.

And, whoever thinks that Lewis is more an aggressive driver or disrespectful to the laws than MS, please come forth. I have some tomatoes and some eggs ready.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:22  
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one thing that we also have to remind is that last year the fia stewarts they made several decisions in favor of hamilton to not give him the right penalty, like last year in brazil where to keep him in the championship they changed the penalty for using more than 2 tires kits that the penalty was 5 place penalty and they simply fine the mclaren for that to not do anything with hamilton.

and also in hungary last year, was simply stupid, and don't understand me wrong, i really like hamilton, but last year every one was taking care of him to make sure that he'll win the championship, now they are simply looking to him like any other driver, i think the penalty was complety right, i agree that is wierd and not fun do this after the race, but he use the cut of the chicane in advantage so that's not fair to kimi and to ferrari, so for me the penalty was right, even though is not the way that we expect to races end. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 13:23  
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IraNik wrote:
All in all, the move by Lewis did not gain him absolutely any advantage. That is, had he stayed behind Kimi in La Source, we would have watched pretty much the same race. Don't forget that Kimi got past him later in the round again.

The only driver getting an unfair advantage is Felipe Massa. Period.


dont bother man. i mentioned that fact a couple of times as well but there are a lot of facts being conveniently forgotten.

at the end of the day lewis got 6 more points than Kimi. fine by me!

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