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Who will win the 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix ?
Poll ended at 07 Sep 2008, 15:34
Lewis Hamilton 25%  25%  [ 22 ]
Felipe Massa 33%  33%  [ 29 ]
Kimi Räikkönen 31%  31%  [ 27 ]
Robert Kubica 6%  6%  [ 5 ]
Heikki Kovalainen 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Nick Heidfeld 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Jarno Trulli 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Fernando Alonso 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Mark Webber 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Timo Glock 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 87
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 09:38  
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scermat wrote:
lewis didnt touch his left rear though. its why he had to cut the chichane in the first place. kimi touched lewis rear down at la source, OTOH. kimi just failed. (but ferrari arent going to say that are they?) you dont drive an f1 car on the curbs when its wet let alone when you're on dry tires and in the wet. you'd think after his crash on friday he would've learned that. from pouhon up until his crash he was using every run off as part of the track. while out of the Ferrari bunch Massa is the one i don't like the most, he'd be a more deserving champion than kimi this year, no doubt about that.


That Ferrari looks a mess in the wet to me. I mean yes, he went OTT at Blanchimant, but that was the impetus of catching Hamilton up, he had to do that to win, given Ferrari's team-orders situation.

As an indication of how slippery that Ferrari is, just look again at the spin coming out of the Fagnes Esses. He was going straight and then just snapped left. That Ferrari was nowhere.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 09:39  
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Three interesting inference from the race:

1. Ferrari's strategy: In the last lap, Massa and Ferrari were able to see whether Lewis would change his tyres to intermediate and thus would have the chance to regulate their strategy according to Lewis' choice. When Lewis didn't go into pit for intermediates, Massa was 5 or 6 sec behind Lewis enough to decide to go into the pit and change for intermediates, which would give him the lead, undoubtedly. But Ferrari or Luca Baldisseri didn't go for it.

2. McLaren's first mechanical failure: Heikki had to park his car at the very last lap due to a gearbox problem. You know what, it's the first race of this gearbox out of 4-race cycle. So it was brand new. That is interesting to me also.

3. Lewis Hamilton: Until this race, I have a huge sympathy for this guy. I really appreciated his driving, his skill and attitude but in this weekend, he seemed to me to be a guy talking genuine words from an ingenuine heart. Especially, in the press conference, he did accuse Kimi for not being fair by not letting him through at the bus stop. Come on, who would do that in the final lap at this kind of championship situation? Those guys are racing each other on the limit, why would Hamilton expect Kimi do this? Lewis wouldn't do that either and I wouldn't accuse him though. In fact, Kimi defended against Lewis' attack. Fair game, %50-%50, not similar to those between Hekki and Webber. He talked as if he's the only angel out of demon's around him trying to let him down. Indeed, I felt very negative about his pre-race statment that "no one can pass him outside.", not so before Kimi passed him outside at La Combes. He's playing the Zeus nowadays and it doesn't seem to be very tasteful to me.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 09:53  
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Ali wrote:
Three interesting inference from the race:

1. Ferrari's strategy: In the last lap, Massa and Ferrari were able to see whether Lewis would change his tyres to intermediate and thus would have the chance to regulate their strategy according to Lewis' choice. When Lewis didn't go into pit for intermediates, Massa was 5 or 6 sec behind Lewis enough to decide to go into the pit and change for intermediates, which would give him the lead, undoubtedly. But Ferrari or Luca Baldisseri didn't go for it.

2. McLaren's first mechanical failure: Heikki had to park his car at the very last lap due to a gearbox problem. You know what, it's the first race of this gearbox out of 4-race cycle. So it was brand new. That is interesting to me also.

3. Lewis Hamilton: Until this race, I have a huge sympathy for this guy. I really appreciated his driving, his skill and attitude but in this weekend, he seemed to me to be a guy talking genuine words from an ingenuine heart. Especially, in the press conference, he did accuse Kimi for not being fair by not letting him through at the bus stop. Come on, who would do that in the final lap at this kind of championship situation? Those guys are racing each other on the limit, why would Hamilton expect Kimi do this? Lewis wouldn't do that either and I wouldn't accuse him though. In fact, Kimi defended against Lewis' attack. Fair game, %50-%50, not similar to those between Hekki and Webber. He talked as if he's the only angel out of demon's around him trying to let him down. Indeed, I felt very negative about his pre-race statment that "no one can pass him outside.", not so before Kimi passed him outside at La Combes. He's playing the Zeus nowadays and it doesn't seem to be very tasteful to me.

Very good points
And i think Mclarens(Heikki gearbox) are having problems at the end of the season thats not good and this may give a edge Ferrrari close to championship

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 09:59  
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TwistedArmco wrote:
scermat wrote:
lewis didnt touch his left rear though. its why he had to cut the chichane in the first place. kimi touched lewis rear down at la source, OTOH. kimi just failed. (but ferrari arent going to say that are they?) you dont drive an f1 car on the curbs when its wet let alone when you're on dry tires and in the wet. you'd think after his crash on friday he would've learned that. from pouhon up until his crash he was using every run off as part of the track. while out of the Ferrari bunch Massa is the one i don't like the most, he'd be a more deserving champion than kimi this year, no doubt about that.


That Ferrari looks a mess in the wet to me. I mean yes, he went OTT at Blanchimant, but that was the impetus of catching Hamilton up, he had to do that to win, given Ferrari's team-orders situation.

As an indication of how slippery that Ferrari is, just look again at the spin coming out of the Fagnes Esses. He was going straight and then just snapped left. That Ferrari was nowhere.




I don´t know, whether it´s the drivers, which aren´t good at all in the wet or the car. The latter would sursprise me to be honest, as Ferrari traditionally had good cars in the wet.
I think it was just Hamilton´s skill advantage in wet conditions that allowed him to pull away a few lenghts from Kimi. Kimi tried hard and lost the car. Felipe was very cautious but stayed on track.

I mean it wasn´t the first time, that the current Ferrari driver lineup got beaten in mixed conditions (Nürburgring 07, Monaco 08)

If I had to put the 20 drivers in order considering their skill in the wet, Kimi and Felipe wouldn´t make the top 10 that´s for sure :O

But you might be right Armco, it could be a car disadvantage, but I don´t think so.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 10:18  
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blizzard wrote:
TwistedArmco wrote:
That Ferrari looks a mess in the wet to me. I mean yes, he went OTT at Blanchimant, but that was the impetus of catching Hamilton up, he had to do that to win, given Ferrari's team-orders situation.

As an indication of how slippery that Ferrari is, just look again at the spin coming out of the Fagnes Esses. He was going straight and then just snapped left. That Ferrari was nowhere.




I don´t know, whether it´s the drivers, which aren´t good at all in the wet or the car. The latter would sursprise me to be honest, as Ferrari traditionally had good cars in the wet.
I think it was just Hamilton´s skill advantage in wet conditions that allowed him to pull away a few lenghts from Kimi. Kimi tried hard and lost the car. Felipe was very cautious but stayed on track.

I mean it wasn´t the first time, that the current Ferrari driver lineup got beaten in mixed conditions (Nürburgring 07, Monaco 08)

If I had to put the 20 drivers in order considering their skill in the wet, Kimi and Felipe wouldn´t make the top 10 that´s for sure :O

But you might be right Armco, it could be a car disadvantage, but I don´t think so.


Well, you're right about Kimi and Felipe not being the greatest wet wether drivers ever. They're a long way off Lewis.

But the key phrase this year with the Ferrari is "Small operating window". In other words, the car is bum in the wrong temperature. So I'm sure that the rain was of equal detriment to both cars' handling abilities, (although the Mac seems softer, whereas the Ferrari looks pointier anyway) but the fact that Hamilton was catching Kimi in the colder conditions before rain set in is perhaps testament to the Ferrari's narrow operating windows. The car looked useless anyway, Hamilton's braking was a lot later than Kimi's before the rain had even set in. I think it's merely a case of tyre management, in that the Ferrari doesn't keep its tyres warm enough in colder conditions. Kimi had to go for it in the wet, but couldn't with the machinery at his disposal. He looked suicidal going into Blanchimant like that though.. :p

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 10:48  
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I still can't believe the penalty, I just can't... :(

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 10:52  
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joostlamers wrote:
I still can't believe the penalty, I just can't... :(


I am highly sympathetic, and were it successfully overturned in appeal (which I don't think it will be) it would be right. :s

I would frankly love Felipe Massa to be world champion. He drove sensibly at Spa, with a car that was bad in the cold, and has had less amateur hours than Raikkonen and Hamilton this season. So I love the fact that he's only two points behind.

But I still feel the penalty was just about unfair (I mean Lewis' move was borderline, he was never more than 5 metres behind him, but there's nothing about that in the rules).

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 10:55  
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TwistedArmco wrote:
joostlamers wrote:
I still can't believe the penalty, I just can't... :(


I am highly sympathetic, and were it successfully overturned in appeal (which I don't think it will be) it would be right. :s

I would frankly love Felipe Massa to be world champion. He drove sensibly at Spa, with a car that was bad in the cold, and has had less amateur hours than Raikkonen and Hamilton this season. So I love the fact that he's only two points behind.

But I still feel the penalty was just about unfair (I mean Lewis' move was borderline, he was never more than 5 metres behind him, but there's nothing about that in the rules).

I think it's really not possible, because it is a drive through penalty, you can't appeal to it... Those are the rules, but now that it is a time penalty, I still think it's the same story: an appeal is imposible...

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 11:00  
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The situation at this moment is like this: We now don't talk about one of the best fights between two world class drivers, but we now talk about the penalty one of them got... It really is a big big shame, for this 'sport'

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 11:10  
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im with TA. i dont think the Ferrari's very good in the wet. i also have a feeling they may struggle at Monza. the McLaren on pure straight line speed was quite a bit faster.

Kimi in the wet was no slouch when he was with McLaren though. he won his first race at Spa in wet conditions. Hamilton (imo) is in a class of his own in the wet though. he does make mistakes (as he did yesterday) but he's able to extract that little bit much more from the car.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 11:25  
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AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

i keep remembering things! (why doesnt this happen in exams!?)

REINMEISTER Massa vs Kubica. Article 30.3a got breached infinite number of times

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1083&hl=en

but wtf... that's just great ballsy racing :cool:

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 11:28  
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scermat wrote:
im with TA. i dont think the Ferrari's very good in the wet. i also have a feeling they may struggle at Monza. the McLaren on pure straight line speed was quite a bit faster.

Kimi in the wet was no slouch when he was with McLaren though. he won his first race at Spa in wet conditions. Hamilton (imo) is in a class of his own in the wet though. he does make mistakes (as he did yesterday) but he's able to extract that little bit much more from the car.


Hamilton is sublime in the wet, because he has the best "feel" of what's going on with the car.

Also in Monza, we may find we get a repeat of last year: the Mac dominates, because the Ferraris can't tackle kerbs very well. If it's warm, we may see an epic fight with the advantages of both cars negating each other: i.e Ferraris fast because it's warm, and McLaren's tyres overheating and graining more because it's warm/Ferrari being ginger over the kerbs, McLaren still able to take the kerbs like lightning.


And re: Massa vs Kubica, yeah, I was so shocked that nothing (penalty wise) came of that. But I think they reasoned that they both did it to equally ridiculous extremes, so no penalty. But you're right, I think that is another point of discrepancy.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 11:33  
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Epic Moment!

Best of 2007 :thumbsup:

Ferrari was not that bad in 2007 but this year they have fail to solve tyre ..temperature issues!.Rain has mastered the previous masters on multiple occasions :p

In Monza watch out for BMW ..i think they will be very strong.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 12:06  
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MrPonx wrote:
lealjaime wrote:


3. FIA use the same criteria and aplied a 25 secs penalty like a drive trought on the race. hamilton has
penalty again the same on diferent race ( by the way remember 1997 shumacher was cut by a
penalty and no williams international asistence)





but if lewis got a drive through under those conditions he would've needed more than 25seconds.. so he was actually lucky to get only 25!!

I just wish Kimi has finished the race.. it's so difficult to swallow...


:thumbsup:

and also it was at the verry end of the race, no chance for the stuarts to decide the penalty

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 Belgian Grand Prix
PostPosted: 08 Sep 2008, 12:13  
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At this very moment the radio plays Linkin Park - In the End
He sings this:
"I tried so hard
And got so far
But in the end
It doesn't even matter"
Tears in my eyes... It's Hamiltons race of yesterday, in a few words...

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