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Who will win the 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix ?
Poll ended at 24 Aug 2008, 16:50
Lewis Hamilton 28%  28%  [ 21 ]
Kimi Räikkönen 38%  38%  [ 29 ]
Felipe Massa 24%  24%  [ 18 ]
Robert Kubica 5%  5%  [ 4 ]
Nick Heidfeld 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Heikki Kovalainen 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Jarno Trulli 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Fernando Alonso 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
Mark Webber 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Timo Glock 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 76
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2008, 20:18  
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scermat wrote:
i completely agree with senna as well mind you. massa's good if he has no pressure. but put some pressure (like rain) and get ready for a mess.


then i guess you havent seen the first few laps of the monco gp 2008
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2008, 20:33  
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shail69 wrote:
senna74 wrote:
Massa deceived a lot by his poor performances in some races this year, Silvetstone does it ring a bell ? :p


well one thing i would like to mention is that he had crash in the practice session. if you look at previous results if you have some problem in practice you tend to have a bad race much like hamilton in bahrain.

Hamilton had a bad race because he rear ended Alonso due to a series of events. Nothing to do with a crash in FP2.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2008, 21:15  
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A disappointing race for Renault, especially because of Nakajima... Maybe he doesn't know where the brake pedal is ... It's not the first time that he hit an other driver, for example Kubica in Melbourne.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2008, 21:25  
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shail69 wrote:
scermat wrote:
i completely agree with senna as well mind you. massa's good if he has no pressure. but put some pressure (like rain) and get ready for a mess.


then i guess you havent seen the first few laps of the monco gp 2008


oh i have. he didn't mess up as he did in silverstone but his pace was no where near hamiltons. which is why lewis crashed and still emerged miiiiiles ahead of anybody else.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2008, 21:38  
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shail69 wrote:
scermat wrote:
ScuderiaFan wrote:

Budapest wasn't Massa's Favorite's track .. and look what have he done last race .. although he lost the race in just 3 laps to go from some incedints out of his hand .. but he was untouchable in a track that he doesn't like .. i still remember when he overtook the Mclarens at the start .. he made both of them like :blink: .. Massa has the talent and a long breathe for this year .. and he willl do his best for the remaining races to put himself in the hall of fame and honour member in ferrari family .. and remember he's fast at his hometown grandprix .. poleposition last year and he could easily won despite the team wanted kimi to nail the title from alonso and Lewis so he handed it to his teammate .. and a victory in 2006 .. so don't underestimate him .. so far he's doing a great job against his nearset rivel ( Lewis )


wouldn't be so sure bout budapest. Lewis was out of the race in the 2nd stint where he was fueled a hell of a lot more than Massa (according to post-race reports anyway - he pitted earlier than he was supposed to in 1st stint so as to get a lot more laps in for 2nd stint)


well it isnt the amount of fuel that decides the winner is it? its the laptime and the time when hamilton had the puncture he was 5s behind and the gap was increasing and byt the time they have to make the pits I would not have been surprised to see that gap to aaround 7s. And hamilton wasent so much heavier than massa only 2 or 3 laps. And you cannot say that it was because of the puncture, because the puncture was his fault, so he was indeed responsible for that.


err i disagree. laptime is very much related to weight. and fuel weighs a lot. so they're very related.

its something called strategy. you come in as soon as your competitor pits even if you can run for 3 more laps so you'd then get 3 more laps in the next stint. which means you can more than easily make up 5 seconds. its happened before. (clear example of this if memory serves me right is kimi at silverstone last year)

PS: with your same argument the engine failure was massa's fault as well for over stressing it. but wth. its F1. everything is on the limit. there's a huge difference between sudden lack of talent, and misfortune. i wouldnt classify hamilton's puncture as lack of talent, and neither massa's engine failure. sure his driving style may be hard on the tyres but his driving style is was got him where he is in the first place. you dont make it to f1 for being gentle on the car. bottom line is, out and out pace Lewis was just that little bit better than the ferraris.

so yeah i think if lewis didnt get that puncture massa wouldn't have had an easy cruise at all. just look at the ground heikki - who was then on a similar strategy - was able to make up in the last stint (before massa's engine failure). that's my opinion of it all at least.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2008, 22:01  
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scermat wrote:
oh i have. he didn't mess up as he did in silverstone but his pace was no where near hamiltons. which is why lewis crashed and still emerged miiiiiles ahead of anybody else.


Sorry, but Lewis crashed and emerged miles ahead of everyone else at the end due to the free pitstop he gained due to the SC. The field was so spread out due to spray and the Trulli train (which made a gap of 30 seconds (!!) from Alonso in fifth to Trulli in sixth before all hell broke loose with Alonso and Lewis's brushes with the wall) that Hamilton had the opportunity to emerge, with a near full tank, in fifth, with an immiment SC period and (perfectly fair enough) Kimi drive-through to negate his disadvantage. I'm fed up of this myth that hamilton in any sense "came back" from his crash.

Silverstone was a mesmerising performance by Hamilton, topping and tailing everyone else, lapping up to 6 secs in particular laps on inters. Whereas at Monaco, the biggest consistent advantage per lap to Massa was 2 seconds per lap on fresher tyres, and at one point on dries when Massa still had his inters on. Nowhere near as dominant as Silvestone.

Rant over.. :)

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2008, 22:22  
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TwistedArmco wrote:
scermat wrote:
oh i have. he didn't mess up as he did in silverstone but his pace was no where near hamiltons. which is why lewis crashed and still emerged miiiiiles ahead of anybody else.


Sorry, but Lewis crashed and emerged miles ahead of everyone else at the end due to the free pitstop he gained due to the SC. The field was so spread out due to spray and the Trulli train (which made a gap of 30 seconds (!!) from Alonso in fifth to Trulli in sixth before all hell broke loose with Alonso and Lewis's brushes with the wall) that Hamilton had the opportunity to emerge, with a near full tank, in fifth, with an immiment SC period and (perfectly fair enough) Kimi drive-through to negate his disadvantage. I'm fed up of this myth that hamilton in any sense "came back" from his crash.

Silverstone was a mesmerising performance by Hamilton, topping and tailing everyone else, lapping up to 6 secs in particular laps on inters. Whereas at Monaco, the biggest consistent advantage per lap to Massa was 2 seconds per lap on fresher tyres, and at one point on dries when Massa still had his inters on. Nowhere near as dominant as Silvestone.

Rant over.. :)


Wow that was the War and Peace of rants.However TwistedArmco you are absolutely correct Hamilton was quicker at Monaco,and although lucky with safety cars was only slightly quicker than Massa.At Silverstone,different story,we know what happened.End of.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2008, 22:25  
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he sure as hell was fastest of them all. The Safety Car can only get you back up with the field. hamiltons pace was more than enough for him to build a gap big enough to retain the lead after his next stop. <- the safety car didn't give him that, his pace got him that. he built a 40 second lead in 55 laps! its not 5 or 10 seconds. its almost 1 second per lap. and even though he was on a car loaded up with fuel. yes, hamilton screwed up. but his pace was unmatched. especially when it mattered

Massa's pace in the rain wasn't good at all (at least after first few laps) as he couldn't maintain his position and had to drop down to 3rd. ok granted when you compare hamilton at silverstone and hamilton at monaco he was a lot faster at silverstone but he was faster anyways :p

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2008, 23:04  
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shail69 wrote:
scermat wrote:
i completely agree with senna as well mind you. massa's good if he has no pressure. but put some pressure (like rain) and get ready for a mess.


then i guess you havent seen the first few laps of the monco gp 2008

I'm afraid you've hit the nail on the head, the first few laps before he went straight on at Ste Devote. By no means was Hamilton squeaky clean after hitting the wall at Tabac but regardless of whether Hamilton would of won without the first SC or not (i'm not even sure he would of) he was blindingly fast out pacing everyone else.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2008, 03:31  
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scermat wrote:

Kimi is not the kind of racer to crack under pressure.

way i see it is he just cannot be bothered with racing in F1 anymore. have a hunch internal ferrari politics have a lot to do with it.


Just wanna to ask. How close your relationship with Kimi??
Its look like u know him better... :p
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2008, 05:26  
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we're brothers. but keep that a secret :p

was just giving my opinion. to me it looks like lack of motivation. i certainly do not think in a million years that massa has more racing talent than kimi.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2008, 06:18  
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scermat wrote:
we're brothers. but keep that a secret :p

:oh:


i certainly do not think in a million years that massa has more racing talent than kimi.

I'm happy with this one..thank you.. :D
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2008, 07:50  
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Fergie1 wrote:
shail69 wrote:
senna74 wrote:
Massa deceived a lot by his poor performances in some races this year, Silvetstone does it ring a bell ? :p


well one thing i would like to mention is that he had crash in the practice session. if you look at previous results if you have some problem in practice you tend to have a bad race much like hamilton in bahrain.

Hamilton had a bad race because he rear ended Alonso due to a series of events. Nothing to do with a crash in FP2.

nurburgring 2007...
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2008, 08:23  
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swca92 wrote:
Wow that was the War and Peace of rants.However TwistedArmco you are absolutely correct Hamilton was quicker at Monaco,and although lucky with safety cars was only slightly quicker than Massa.At Silverstone,different story,we know what happened.End of.

for very simple reason Ferrari switched him to single stop strategy and so had twice amount fuel than Hamilton and as track condition changed ...Ferrari decided bring him in once again even that was wrongly timed.In first stint Massa was almost 0.100 sec quicker than Hamilton ..FACE IT! :n

[s]IF[/s](err) Massa didn't had noobed out @ start of season ...Ferrari would have clear #1 :p


IMHO Tyre issue is greater prob ..than we can understand...the reason was Ferrari BS in 2005!The Nick & Kimi's struggle say something ... i don't think their lack motivation.Some say Ferrari internal politics responsible current kimi's state ... those are newbie's or either don't follow kimi :p :E (kidding)

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 European Grand Prix
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2008, 08:44  
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shail69 wrote:
Fergie1 wrote:
shail69 wrote:
well one thing i would like to mention is that he had crash in the practice session. if you look at previous results if you have some problem in practice you tend to have a bad race much like hamilton in bahrain.

Hamilton had a bad race because he rear ended Alonso due to a series of events. Nothing to do with a crash in FP2.

nurburgring 2007...


Puncture Turn 3. Nothing to do with the crash

remember remember...

Monaco 2007.

crashed in practice, all over Alonso's rear in race

Hungary 2007.

spun out in practice, won the race (ok without alonso there but still - he won)

and that's just lewis. many other drivers had shunts in practice yet still produced great results.

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