TwistedArmco wrote:scermat wrote:there's your consistency! so valencia was a track where you'd get penalised only if you get a sporting advantage.
i'm remembering so many incidents that got penalised where no sporting advantage was gained right now dating back to ages ago! like when montoya got DQ for having his pit crew leave his car a few seconds too late. cant see what possible sporting advantage that might have given him. or even this year when lewis oversteered on lap 1 over the chichane after overtaking bourdais.
Yes but before this season, there are many precedents as to what happens if you do that. Like Alonso last year (although I bet you wish he was penalized) wasn't penalized time or a stop-go for narrowly missing Honda mechanics at the Nurburgring. He was fined instead.
With pit crew on the grid, it's black and white, there are clear rules, with Pitlane, as long as nothign happened it is a) more situationally variable b) considered more minor if nothing actually resulted. If Hamilton's pitcrew (I stress pitcrew, because it is SO NOT the driver's responsibility) let him out like so in future, I would expect no penalty either, because a reprimand and a fine is penalty enough given the fact that no one was harmed/no dangerous situation occured.
That is my take on it anyway..
EDIT: I kind of missed your fundamental point, which is that more consistency and more rigid rules (as to when and how a penalty can be decided on/debated about) need to be imposed. The same group of stewards at every GP, with the same standards/ethics/neutrality which I believe you or someone else mentioned earlier, would be the way to go.
yes what i meant to argue about was the consistency. Massa definitely DID NOT deserve that penalty. as i said i think the fine was the correct way to go. it was definitely not the drivers fault. even though we have seen drivers get penalised for mistakes the team made.
i only disagree on one thing. that if it didnt cause a dangerous situation it shouldnt be penalised on the track. rules are there to be followed. maybe today nothing dangerous occured but who knows what next GP might bring? altough technically i guess you can argue that the rules were followed here as they were reprimanded. but why not be consistent in what you hand out as penalties/fines? i mean this is a general issue not about this incident. its like stewards are too harsh or too soft. Chandook got penalised for "unsafe release from pitlane" in the GP2 race at Valencia - by the same stewards! remember ralf at the 2005 Imola GP? 25 second penalty after the race for being released unsafely from his second pitstop. this is what my problem is. lack of consistency.
you seem to be a fan of alonso (who no, i didnt want to get penalised as i quite like him as a racer - plus he used to drive for McLaren last year , and even if i dont like a team/driver i try to be fair)... i presume you remember Monza 2006 qualifying. i wouldn't call what happened then consistent. or the penalty Kova and Rosberg or Kazu got in France. other drivers did it before and they didnt even get investigated! or how about in 2003 when Schumi was pushed at the nurburgring (as hamilton last year) but Alonso at Monza VERY similar incident didnt get pushed? how about hamiltons penalty in france? race before in Canada vettel cut a chiacane as he oversteered and didnt get penalised (and rightly so) but why penalise one and not the other? of course... you can always find small differences in the cases but that's nitpicking. rules were broken and VERY different penalties (if at all) were handed out.
i can mention a multitude more of incidents involving many drivers where consistency wasnt met by the FIA. hell... the 100m fine mclaren got was the biggest piece of inconsistency ever considering Spyker did the same thing just 2 months earlier and actually used RedBull's classified documents as evidence against them! lol. i just think it's pointless to have rules when if they get breached you have no idea of what penalty to get.
ok granted, there were some consistent penalties handed out over the year and sure... you may argue they were severe... but at least they were consistent! like the running out on pitlane red light in Canada... Montoya in 2005 got DQd for doing it and so did Massa and Kubica when they did it in 07. that's what handing out penalties should be like imo.