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Who will win the 2008 German Grand Prix ?
Kimi Räikkönen 40%  40%  [ 32 ]
Felipe Massa 14%  14%  [ 11 ]
Lewis Hamilton 26%  26%  [ 21 ]
Heikki Kovalainen 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Nick Heidfeld 6%  6%  [ 5 ]
Robert Kubica 7%  7%  [ 6 ]
Jarno Trulli 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Mark Webber 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Fernando Alonso 5%  5%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 81
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 German Grand Prix
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2008, 14:20  
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xyneid wrote:

Lewis saved Ron, that's the truth. An another truth is that Heikki is the number two driver of McLaren from now on (which has been the case since the begining actually).


Hamilton can lead McLaren - 2007
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64295
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 German Grand Prix
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2008, 14:24  
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iceman1 wrote:
xyneid wrote:

Lewis saved Ron, that's the truth. An another truth is that Heikki is the number two driver of McLaren from now on (which has been the case since the begining actually).


Hamilton can lead McLaren - 2007
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64295

Poor Heikki.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 German Grand Prix
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2008, 14:30  
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dacer wrote:
f1anantic, how old are you? how many races have you seen?


Going on 30, still healthy. Attended the races live: 2000-2007 in USA, 1995 Hungary, 1999 & 2002 Canada. And I have been watching Formula One since just about 1990. Since 1996 I failed to watch 2 races, both times due to inclement weather (satellite TV). Does that answer your questions ?

I shall refrain from using "trashed". Simply put it, Lewis destroyed everyone. Every time someone laps 1 sec a lap faster than the field, that is what he does.

Massa's drive was pathetic indeed. He kept it on the island and did the best with some equipment that was clearly not up to McLaren's speed. He did well, did not take unnecessary risks like Hamilton racing...I forgot who that guy was but came in the pits very soon after Lewis got behind him. Massa drove to maximize the points. What would blocking Lewis at no end do except putting both at risk for collision ? Why would you block a car which is 1 sec a lap faster ? Because you think you have a chance ?

We can agree to disagree you know. I am cool with that.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 German Grand Prix
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2008, 14:31  
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NOT THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE, there are not n1 and n2 on McLaren, both driver have the same
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 German Grand Prix
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2008, 14:32  
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I wonder where Mclaren found that extra performance 0.5 Per Lap :blink:
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 German Grand Prix
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2008, 14:36  
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McLaren don't have a no. 1 or 2? Heikki was roughly a second a lap slower and then let Lewis through. For the rest of this season atleast, Hamilton's no.1 at McLaren
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 German Grand Prix
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2008, 14:38  
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f1anatic wrote:
I would certainly encourage Alonso to retire. He completely got trashed out by his team mate. And whenever he tried overtaking, it was an all or none ...and he lost. If we judge mistakes as an obvious indication of retirement, then David Coulthard is right to hang up his helmet...as should Rubens, really.

McLaren & Hamilton cannot easily explain a flawed strategy but their speed did save the day.


Piquet did not do that on merit. The timing of his pit-stop and the SC was massively lucky, and without that he'd have finished near on 20 seconds behind Alonso, same as he has all season. Alonso was forced to kill his rears in keeping his positions and had a massive straight-line speed disadvantage. You can't judge a driver on the deficiencies of his car.

The McLaren was easily the fastest car on the track. - Hamilton deserved to win but had he not won, than it would have been bad because he did have the fastest car.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 German Grand Prix
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2008, 14:42  
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dacer wrote:
NOT THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE, there are not n1 and n2 on McLaren, both driver have the same

Come on mate, it's not enough just to say it as words. You must apply it on track, which hasn't been the case since the beginning of the season. Do you believe all what Ron says or do you believe what you see?

Now please read this from the friday press conference:

Quote:
Q: What are your feelings about Heikki’s performances? Has he been very unlucky or has he exceeded your expectations?
Norbert Haug: He was quick. You saw the fuel load in Silverstone when he did his first pole position. He has the speed.


When you read this, you would think that Heikki was heavier than Hamilton in Silverstone right? But, Heikki were in the pit 2 laps before Hamilton, as if he's the lighter of the two. Then, why didn't Heikki do extra laps if he was heavier in Silverstone? If hewas lighter, then why did Haug say such a thing? Do you expect me believe what those guys' say?

The picture in McLaren is not as it seems and hasn't been during Alonso & Hamilton case either.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 German Grand Prix
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2008, 14:46  
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xyneid (hi), I was ironic!!!!

We see today, Ron Dennis pressing a button and a second later Heiki LET'S HAMILTON OVERTAKE HIM
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 German Grand Prix
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2008, 14:48  
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xyneid wrote:
dacer wrote:
NOT THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE, there are not n1 and n2 on McLaren, both driver have the same

Come on mate, it's not enough just to say it as words. You must apply it on track, which hasn't been the case since the beginning of the season. Do you believe all what Ron says or do you believe what you see?

Nah Dacer is Kidding :nosweat:
Lewis Hamilton clearly was much faster than anyone else but McLaren decided to enliven things by giving him the daftest pit strategy imaginable during the safety car period. Still the moves by Hamilton on Massa and Piquet Jr. were very good and Hamilton was good value for his victory.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 German Grand Prix
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2008, 14:52  
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Changing topic, do you think Ferrari will protest about possible McLaren team orders?
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 German Grand Prix
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2008, 14:55  
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I was expecting a good race from Lewis, but not THIS good at all !yahoo: . One second faster than the rest is a lot... No a chance for the rest... during the practices he was faster... but not that much. Here in Italy they are saying that when Hamilton did not stop during the safety car was a strategy-mistake (Hamilton's mistake they said) ... but I think they really thought that they could win the race anyway. When you at least win half a second for lap... you don't need to care much about loosing a couple of places. It was a really big risk... but they were too confident on Lewis and the car... :thumbsup:

Here in italy they are saying that was a terrible race for Ferrari, but I don't think that Massa performance was that bad. Certainly when you have a car that is one second faster than everyone you may think your doing wrong... but there where other 18 cars in the track that most of the race were behind Massa. It is really nice to see Piquet in the second place, but certainly it was just a strategy-bet they won...

Who's wearing Kimi's suit??... He not the same pilot that use to work for McLaren.... Is he comfortable in Ferrari??? It was clear the performace of the car was not good.... but why?... can he not set the car as he want to? Technicians are no able to give him what he wants?...
McLaren has improved a lot and Ferrari seems to not see that they need more than put the car on the track for winning... This year the car is not making the job by itself... Anyway... I'm a McLaren fan, so for me, Ferrari: don't improve anything!! you look beautiful behind McLaren's...hehe :p

And seems that is performance we can expect from Heikki... not more.. and it's a shame, but I think he's not the pilot McLaren needs... :sad:

About the rest...
- Vettel is learning fast... He did some really good things :thumbsup:
- Glock.. I'm glad your Ok... and Toyota... please... a suspension cannot break itself like that!!!!...
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 German Grand Prix
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2008, 14:56  
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swca92 wrote:
Changing topic, do you think Ferrari will protest about possible McLaren team orders?


I don't think so... they are the kings on that...
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 German Grand Prix
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2008, 15:00  
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TwistedArmco wrote:
f1anatic wrote:
I would certainly encourage Alonso to retire. He completely got trashed out by his team mate. And whenever he tried overtaking, it was an all or none ...and he lost. If we judge mistakes as an obvious indication of retirement, then David Coulthard is right to hang up his helmet...as should Rubens, really.

McLaren & Hamilton cannot easily explain a flawed strategy but their speed did save the day.


Piquet did not do that on merit. The timing of his pit-stop and the SC was massively lucky, and without that he'd have finished near on 20 seconds behind Alonso, same as he has all season. Alonso was forced to kill his rears in keeping his positions and had a massive straight-line speed disadvantage. You can't judge a driver on the deficiencies of his car.

The McLaren was easily the fastest car on the track. - Hamilton deserved to win but had he not won, than it would have been bad because he did have the fastest car.


Everyone can leapfrog ahead or lose positions based on the safety car. Now let us think this way: bad qualifying meant he had to start on a heavy fuel load and save the tires, given the fuel/tire strategy. Alonso wasn't forced to kill his tires, he killed his tires. C'mon mate, how many passes did he attempt this race and he ended up losing positions ? And how many times did he defend his position ? I don't know who is more furious: Alonso with his car or Briatore with Alonso ?

Of course you can judge a driver by the deficiencies of his car. There are those who can mitigate the deficiencies thru skill and those who cannot. We know a guy who did that year after year. One would have expected the world champions to be able to handle their cars better than their respective team mates. I usually have greater respect for those who are slower but keep it on the island than for those who are ambitious but lose out. That is not to say that I encourage complacency. For instance I found Kimmi's race to be better managed than that of Alonso and probably both hated their cars' handling. But that is just my opinion and may not reflect reality.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 FORMULA 1 German Grand Prix
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2008, 15:04  
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hannibal_rising wrote:
Who's wearing Kimi's suit??... He not the same pilot that use to work for McLaren.... Is he comfortable in Ferrari??? It was clear the performace of the car was not good.... but why?... can he not set the car as he want to? Technicians are no able to give him what he wants?...
McLaren has improved a lot and Ferrari seems to not see that they need more than put the car on the track for winning... This year the car is not making the job by itself... Anyway... I'm a McLaren fan, so for me, Ferrari: don't improve anything!! you look beautiful behind McLaren's...hehe :p


I think he's just not happy with his car at the moment. they said he was just using the first quali session as a 'practise' as he wasn't happy with the set up.
Quote:
Ferrari are VERY easy on their tyres which gives them a big disadvantage on a short track like this. Massa has proven he knows his stuff around this track and his lap is impressive when u take their tyre temp issue into account. It's not KR's style to throw the car around and it was always going to be a struggle for him to get a competitive time here as he won't warm the tyres up 'naturally'
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