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Who will win the Monaco Grand Prix
Poll ended at 24 May 2008, 14:36
Kimi Raikkonen 38%  38%  [ 41 ]
Felipe Massa 7%  7%  [ 8 ]
Lewis Hamilton 39%  39%  [ 42 ]
Heikki Kovalainen 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Robert Kubica 9%  9%  [ 10 ]
Nick Heidfeld 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Fernando Alonso 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
Other 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 109
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Monaco Grand Prix - Grand Prix de Monaco
PostPosted: 26 May 2008, 14:30  
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Lightning983 wrote:
uncleben wrote:
Yeah he did lose control of the car on the descent. I guess he didn't get on the brakes fast enough or too much braking. But still :<>:


No he actually braked a bit sooner... that's why it happened in the 1st place...

And also, its the 2nd race he ruined another guys's race... last time it was Kovaleinen, by clipping his rear tire... this time Sutil...


That was bad luck regarding kovalainen. Though the start of the turkish race, i couldnt help but see how slow heiki got off, lewis getting infront but being able to keep kimi behind. team orders maybe? Remeniscent of coulthard/hakkinen? Maybe.

Anyway, i dont know whats wrong with kimi this year. Maybe Massa finally, will get a world championship, hes driving pretty impecably upto yet, come on lad!
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Monaco Grand Prix - Grand Prix de Monaco
PostPosted: 26 May 2008, 14:38  
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mikhailv wrote:
Lightning983 wrote:
uncleben wrote:
Yeah he did lose control of the car on the descent. I guess he didn't get on the brakes fast enough or too much braking. But still :<>:


No he actually braked a bit sooner... that's why it happened in the 1st place...

And also, its the 2nd race he ruined another guys's race... last time it was Kovaleinen, by clipping his rear tire... this time Sutil...


That was bad luck regarding kovalainen. Though the start of the turkish race, i couldnt help but see how slow heiki got off, lewis getting infront but being able to keep kimi behind. team orders maybe? Remeniscent of coulthard/hakkinen? Maybe.

Anyway, i dont know whats wrong with kimi this year. Maybe Massa finally, will get a world championship, hes driving pretty impecably upto yet, come on lad!

Bad start in Turkey wasn't also Kova's fault, it was due to the right (left for the drivers) side of the track, which was full of dirt and dust, that he lost a few places, Raikkonen also lost his place to Hamilton. It was the track, not the driver

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Monaco Grand Prix - Grand Prix de Monaco
PostPosted: 26 May 2008, 14:41  
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What a great Monaco race, the best since 1997 :nosweat: . Lewis Hamilton won this incredible race and now leads, so the championship is now more exciting. The man of the race is definitely Adrian Sutil, but Räikkönen crashed into the Force India in the last laps of the race. Beside there were many great scenes in it, but also many mistakes of Massa, Piquet, Alonso, Hamilton or Räikkönen. However, great race, best of the season so far :cheezy:

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Monaco Grand Prix - Grand Prix de Monaco
PostPosted: 26 May 2008, 14:41  
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mikhailv wrote:
Its probably just me, but did anyone else feel nothing special regarding lewis winning the race?

I mean, he hardly did anything and won the race. Im not saying anything too critical, but most of his wins always happen when nobody challenges him. Take last year, canada theres was kubica's accident, ferrari sucked and Alonso was just arsing around and was sh*t being fair. Indianopolis, didnt have much pressure, ALonso was faster but couldnt get the slipstream so let it go in the end. Hungary, slower BMW's couldnt challenge him much and Alonso was penalised for blocking (which was a stupid retalliation move to be fair). Japan saw terrible antics behind the safety car causing Webber and Vettel to collide once again leaving slower BMW's to chase him. Then Australia 08, where the ferrari's sucked terribly

In those races, Lewis did what others couldn't manage to do. You can describe any race win of any driver in the similar way you do. That's not a healthy inference though, just another biased conclusion. Race win is dependent on so many parametres. Lewis has done what he had to do perfectly and waited for others to screw up. Lewis was so consistent last year and made two big mistakes which cost him WC.

mikhailv wrote:
Heiki was used as the rear gunner which ITV's commentators repeatedly said.

Infact this is a small point id like to make. ITV both in australia and Monaco said that Heiki is lewis' rear gunner and that he is McLarens guinea pig for dry tyres so lewis didnt make a mistake.

Yes, I agree you on that. Lewis is a hidden Number 1 driver at McLaren. Heikki has been always heavier than his team-mate and used as a tried-and-tested package, like in dry tyre change timing in Monaco.

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Monaco Grand Prix - Grand Prix de Monaco
PostPosted: 26 May 2008, 14:48  
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re mikhailv: in hungary 2007 he was pressured by kimi all the way and yesterday he had his 40 second lead eroded down to nothing- that has to be a bit of pressure surely?

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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Monaco Grand Prix - Grand Prix de Monaco
PostPosted: 26 May 2008, 15:10  
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xyneid wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
Its probably just me, but did anyone else feel nothing special regarding lewis winning the race?

I mean, he hardly did anything and won the race. Im not saying anything too critical, but most of his wins always happen when nobody challenges him. Take last year, canada theres was kubica's accident, ferrari sucked and Alonso was just arsing around and was sh*t being fair. Indianopolis, didnt have much pressure, ALonso was faster but couldnt get the slipstream so let it go in the end. Hungary, slower BMW's couldnt challenge him much and Alonso was penalised for blocking (which was a stupid retalliation move to be fair). Japan saw terrible antics behind the safety car causing Webber and Vettel to collide once again leaving slower BMW's to chase him. Then Australia 08, where the ferrari's sucked terribly

In those races, Lewis did what others couldn't manage to do. You can describe any race win of any driver in the similar way you do. That's not a healthy inference though, just another biased conclusion. Race win is dependent on so many parametres. Lewis has done what he had to do perfectly and waited for others to screw up. Lewis was so consistent last year and made two big mistakes which cost him WC.


I guess the point im trying to make, is that upto yet, lewis hasnt done anything spectacular. All his wins have laid on the luck of other drivers. You could say its bias, but when i see the likes of Kimi, Massa and Alonso all being dismissed as lesser drivers by many people, but seeing them fight tooth nail for a percentage of their vicories, not just winning from pole position and relying on others' luck, but from their skill in overtaking and genuine racing wheel to wheel.

As of yet, we havnt seen lewis do that against the ferrari yet. Ofcourse you could say Massa and Turkey, but when your 7 laps less fuel and 9 tenths quicker, youd expect him to overtake in turkey as its renouned for its overtaking places on track.

In my eyes lewis needs to prove himself. Last year was quite strange. He was most likely the most consistent driver, where Alonso just, was s*** in some races, but then remembered he was a world champion and decimated the field when he won IE european grand prix last year from a fantastic charge at Felipe.

Taking away all of the hype, all of the bias commentary, interview with him and everything. I havnt seen anything thats consistent 'world champion' material from lewis this or last year. Credit to him winning monaco, he didnt make a mistake when it counted, its just that, i felt 'oh lewis won'. that was it. perhaps seeing nothing of him all race was a joy and a curse, as no senna remarks for 2 hours was nice to listen to, but then we didnt see any driving of him. I cant help but feel he had lots of gap between the people behind and infront, and relied heavily on massa and kubica's struggles with each other, which supposedly gives the car infront a second everytime you go defensive.

I guess you can say im bias because im a huge Alonso fan. but based on what ive seen just on lewis' driving, i cant see nothing special. He tends to push alot yes, and he manages to keep the car on track with it a majority of the time. But upto yet, nothing suggests to me that he is fully world champion material, and that alot of his good fortune is because of the bad fortune of everyone else.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Monaco Grand Prix - Grand Prix de Monaco
PostPosted: 26 May 2008, 15:17  
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phil1993 wrote:
re mikhailv: in hungary 2007 he was pressured by kimi all the way and yesterday he had his 40 second lead eroded down to nothing- that has to be a bit of pressure surely?


I dont think that the safety car caused much pressure, as he wouldve known massa and kubica were at each other alot, and that because hes actually good at bunching the back and belting it away from them when they dont notice it, he gets a good 2-3 second advantage whilst letting everyone squabble away.

Thats a smart feat to be honest with you. And regarding hungary, i thought the pressure was on and off, where kimi was all over him, then not, then he was. Didnt they finish like, 0.8 seconds between each other? close but no cigar for kimi wasnt it.

wrong regarding hungary then!
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Monaco Grand Prix - Grand Prix de Monaco
PostPosted: 26 May 2008, 16:01  
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mikhailv wrote:
xyneid wrote:
mikhailv wrote:
Its probably just me, but did anyone else feel nothing special regarding lewis winning the race?

I mean, he hardly did anything and won the race. Im not saying anything too critical, but most of his wins always happen when nobody challenges him. Take last year, canada theres was kubica's accident, ferrari sucked and Alonso was just arsing around and was sh*t being fair. Indianopolis, didnt have much pressure, ALonso was faster but couldnt get the slipstream so let it go in the end. Hungary, slower BMW's couldnt challenge him much and Alonso was penalised for blocking (which was a stupid retalliation move to be fair). Japan saw terrible antics behind the safety car causing Webber and Vettel to collide once again leaving slower BMW's to chase him. Then Australia 08, where the ferrari's sucked terribly

In those races, Lewis did what others couldn't manage to do. You can describe any race win of any driver in the similar way you do. That's not a healthy inference though, just another biased conclusion. Race win is dependent on so many parametres. Lewis has done what he had to do perfectly and waited for others to screw up. Lewis was so consistent last year and made two big mistakes which cost him WC.


I guess the point im trying to make, is that upto yet, lewis hasnt done anything spectacular. All his wins have laid on the luck of other drivers. You could say its bias, but when i see the likes of Kimi, Massa and Alonso all being dismissed as lesser drivers by many people, but seeing them fight tooth nail for a percentage of their vicories, not just winning from pole position and relying on others' luck, but from their skill in overtaking and genuine racing wheel to wheel.

As of yet, we havnt seen lewis do that against the ferrari yet. Ofcourse you could say Massa and Turkey, but when your 7 laps less fuel and 9 tenths quicker, youd expect him to overtake in turkey as its renouned for its overtaking places on track.

In my eyes lewis needs to prove himself. Last year was quite strange. He was most likely the most consistent driver, where Alonso just, was s*** in some races, but then remembered he was a world champion and decimated the field when he won IE european grand prix last year from a fantastic charge at Felipe.

Taking away all of the hype, all of the bias commentary, interview with him and everything. I havnt seen anything thats consistent 'world champion' material from lewis this or last year. Credit to him winning monaco, he didnt make a mistake when it counted, its just that, i felt 'oh lewis won'. that was it. perhaps seeing nothing of him all race was a joy and a curse, as no senna remarks for 2 hours was nice to listen to, but then we didnt see any driving of him. I cant help but feel he had lots of gap between the people behind and infront, and relied heavily on massa and kubica's struggles with each other, which supposedly gives the car infront a second everytime you go defensive.

I guess you can say im bias because im a huge Alonso fan. but based on what ive seen just on lewis' driving, i cant see nothing special. He tends to push alot yes, and he manages to keep the car on track with it a majority of the time. But upto yet, nothing suggests to me that he is fully world champion material, and that alot of his good fortune is because of the bad fortune of everyone else.


May be yes. But i guess you are missing out his consistent performance in terms of where he is finishing the race. Last year, he was finishing all races and he finished quite a lot in the top 3 which ultimately lead to championship fight. I see the same here. Alonso is a great driver & i don't wish to say anything more .. < because im a mclaren fan :p ) ... Btw " All his wins laid on the luck of other drivers " - i certainly don't find this acceptable. He didn't win in Canada, USA & Hungary last year with the help of all Ferrari crash or Alonso's failure. I appreciate you giving him credit for his Monaco win, but dismissing his victories as a failure on the part of the other drivers is a lame reason. I can say the same for Massa's win in Turkey 08 as a gift because Lewis was on three stops & Kimi's win China 07 as failure of Lewis ... Do you find this acceptable ? I don't think anybody would find this acceptable. Every driver have their own share of luck and hard work. I think both blew in Lewis way in Monaco.
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 Post subject: Re: 2008 Monaco Grand Prix - Grand Prix de Monaco
PostPosted: 26 May 2008, 16:11  
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certainly is a lame reason, sanredrose is right, every driver gets some victories as a gift, but Hamilton was the fastest in Canada, in USA, in Hungary, etc. But he also has had his lucky moments, just like Alonso won a lot of races in 2005 thanks to a Kimi failure (I mean his engine :p )

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 Post subject: Re: Rate the Monaco Grand Prix 2008
PostPosted: 26 May 2008, 16:14  
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starbright wrote:
6. Best rookie: Piquet
Why so many of you think that Piquet did a good job? When Alonso got dry tires, he can drive preaty well... Piquet - he crash car... :blink:

I think as you. Piquet's race, was not bad, but not good too.
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 Post subject: Re: Rate the Monaco Grand Prix 2008
PostPosted: 26 May 2008, 16:17  
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joostlamers wrote:
starbright wrote:
6. Best rookie: Piquet
Why so many of you think that Piquet did a good job? When Alonso got dry tires, he can drive preaty well... Piquet - he crash car... :blink:

Piquet was the first out on the dry tires, and Alonso is more experienced with that tricky situation, which it was at that moment. But Piquet will learn about this.


NOT, was the second. First was Alonso, after was piquet, and crash on second lap with dry tyres.

Edit:
I don't understand why you said Kimi was the worst driver. His drive throught was not cause for him. He only had 3 errors.
1-Race start, he loose his position with Hamilton (as many other drivers on left side).
2-His race off, as many other drivers like Massa, Hamilton, Alonso, ...
3-His crash with Sutil

Massa was very worst driver like him. His team was ok with him (no drive throught), and he was driving first a lot of time, and when was second, he only loose second with any other driver on track
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 Post subject: Re: Rate the Monaco Grand Prix 2008
PostPosted: 26 May 2008, 17:09  
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I Very much liked this race and Im so sorry for Sutil. Im a Ferrari fan but i think Raikkonen is very very bad man. Though it wasnt on purpose he shouldve known that his tyres would be cold..
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 Post subject: Re: Rate the Monaco Grand Prix 2008
PostPosted: 26 May 2008, 17:11  
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I think Piquet is not fitted for F1. He just makes too much mistakes while he knows the circuits from GP2
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 Post subject: Re: Rate the Monaco Grand Prix 2008
PostPosted: 26 May 2008, 17:22  
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kasperburger wrote:
I think Piquet is not fitted for F1. He just makes too much mistakes while he knows the circuits from GP2


Thats what Flavio wants to keep Alonso inside !
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 Post subject: Re: Rate the Monaco Grand Prix 2008
PostPosted: 26 May 2008, 17:32  
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of course, Alonso is guilty of this. As last year with Hamilton
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